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Posted 12/29/2012 12:55 pm
I am not referring to any one specific post he as I do not want to make enemies from my friends.
However, I see a lot of faulty reasoning going on here when people try to compare modern trends with historic trends.
How in the world can anyone think that the original silver dollar's usage and acceptance has anything at all to do with moder times?
The first dollars were worth so very much more in buying power, compared with today, and even in the days of when they stopped making Morgans and then Peace dollars.
The majority of people in the late 1700s never would have conceived carrying around a pocket full of dollars since this was an incredible amount of money at that time.
The same can be said about the days that Morgans were in circulation. Gold pieces were made used even in denominations of $1,$2.50,$3, and $5 - so even for those who could afford to carry this much in their pockets, they did not need to have a heavy stack of silver dollars to carry around.
When my grandparents were in their working years, the " 5 and dime" was the general purpose store to get just about anything. Note this was not the "50 cent store." The half dollar was still a bit much money for toting piles of them around in your pocket. And by this time, we also see ther had been a rebirth of the coined silver dollar, but also note from montage numbers, that initial production numbers were larger, use of the coin waned, and the series was discontinued.
If people had been wanting the coin, instead of bills, the silver dollar would likely have been continued. Remember this was in the days when America was growing into its golden age and the government was a lot less of a criminal organization. They did more of what was needed/wanted and were more, as was defined by the Founding Fathers, a servant elected by the people to do the will of the people.
My dad told me in the days he was growing up - 40s and 50s - that generally, people did not use half dollars since a quarter would get you an awful lot of what you wanted.
When I first was introduced to halves as a kid - in the 60 's, I thought they were cool and asked why people did not use them. The response I was given was that people did not like how large they were, for this reason, they had never been a popular coin, and that you only rarely got them in change or could get numbers of them at banks.
It was also during the 50's and 60' my Grandfather had half dollar changers in his businesses. It was a rare week indeed when he had to replenish the quarters in the machine b/ c people did not like carrying e larger coins when they did not have to.
As a former American history teacher, who taught from a textbook heavily supplemented by actual writings from the Founding Fathers and their contemporaries, I could easily take offense at this statement. Instead, having some knowledge of history and debate, I can see this statement for what it is.
Today's society has divorced themselves from what the Founding Father's intended for this nation to be. Never before would actual self-proclaimed communist have been allowed to be in a position of power in DC (Van Jones). The current mindset of Americans who would allow such a thing to occur without standing up against it shows the education system if the past 20 some years has failed miserably in defining what being American means. A lot of modern statements claiming to be knowledgeable of the initial intents of our founders have been fed a fantasy version of actual history and have no concept of being duped.
The fact that the dollar coins are mostly sitting in vaults b/c they have been rejected by the American people is obvious fact. For those who desire such a crazy thing (tongue in cheek), that the wish of the American people is not to use them. The Kennedy half dollar was a precedent to this - people said they were too heavy. And although the current baby dollars are smaller, and despite naysayers who have obviously not read the other threads in which we discussed this and went into the Canadians initial rejection of dollar coins based on not wanting heavy pockets - as proven by references to their own media at the time of The coin introduction - the weight in pocket issue is a real thing. But people can continue to ignore the facts if they so wish. It is the current trend anyway. Fact and truth are irrelevant to what I or any other person desire to be fact. And of course, let's not forget to use the common - more often left - tool of throwing out the word "anecdotal" in an attempt to make fact sound irrelevant.
The material a dollar is composed of has nothing to do with patriotism. Normally, in debate, statements made out of context as such are an indication the person preferring the statement are emotionally, instead of factually, motivated. Whether the current case is such, I do not know. I am simply stating fact.
I also would disagree strongly with the statement made to the effect that a lot of what the government does for us is best. I cite the financially troubled agencies such as SS, USPS, Medicair, Medicaid, etc. The intentions of some government agencies/people may be intended for our good. But our current levels of debt and overwhelming red tape show otherwise.
The government would be "forcing" us to use baby dollars b/c Americans have overwhelmingly rejected the dollar coin (whether or not we think they are stupid for doing this is irrelevant - it has been done. Hence giving the American people no other option is the government forcing the American people to use something they have rejected.
Since Americans accepted, willingly to use quarters etc., it is comparing apples and oranges to use the concept of people's usage of quarters with their rejection of the dollar coins. If Americans had rejected quarters and the government only gave us quarters to use, this would be forcing us to use them.
And, BTW, no one is forced to use American money. Offer a merchant a solid silver coin sometime, or a piece of gold and see how often they reject it. Normally, as proven by the many silver barter currencies, people will not put them in the cash register, but redeem them for themselves and pocket the silver.
The government is a representative of the people. Modern trends try to define the government as our masters and our nanny. When the American people speak, and overwhelmingly have an opinion, a true American government, elected by the people, should be honor-bound, on the trust of those they promised to carry out their wishes if elected, to make sure the people who elected them are truly represented.
No, the American people are not perfect and might not always make the right choices - as history has shown, but coercion by higher officials was a major concept our Founding Fathers were trying to minimize.
However, I see a lot of faulty reasoning going on here when people try to compare modern trends with historic trends.
How in the world can anyone think that the original silver dollar's usage and acceptance has anything at all to do with moder times?
The first dollars were worth so very much more in buying power, compared with today, and even in the days of when they stopped making Morgans and then Peace dollars.
The majority of people in the late 1700s never would have conceived carrying around a pocket full of dollars since this was an incredible amount of money at that time.
The same can be said about the days that Morgans were in circulation. Gold pieces were made used even in denominations of $1,$2.50,$3, and $5 - so even for those who could afford to carry this much in their pockets, they did not need to have a heavy stack of silver dollars to carry around.
When my grandparents were in their working years, the " 5 and dime" was the general purpose store to get just about anything. Note this was not the "50 cent store." The half dollar was still a bit much money for toting piles of them around in your pocket. And by this time, we also see ther had been a rebirth of the coined silver dollar, but also note from montage numbers, that initial production numbers were larger, use of the coin waned, and the series was discontinued.
If people had been wanting the coin, instead of bills, the silver dollar would likely have been continued. Remember this was in the days when America was growing into its golden age and the government was a lot less of a criminal organization. They did more of what was needed/wanted and were more, as was defined by the Founding Fathers, a servant elected by the people to do the will of the people.
My dad told me in the days he was growing up - 40s and 50s - that generally, people did not use half dollars since a quarter would get you an awful lot of what you wanted.
When I first was introduced to halves as a kid - in the 60 's, I thought they were cool and asked why people did not use them. The response I was given was that people did not like how large they were, for this reason, they had never been a popular coin, and that you only rarely got them in change or could get numbers of them at banks.
It was also during the 50's and 60' my Grandfather had half dollar changers in his businesses. It was a rare week indeed when he had to replenish the quarters in the machine b/ c people did not like carrying e larger coins when they did not have to.
Quote:
As I said, it's a mindset. If you want to be "real" Americans...... you'll welcome the return of the dollar coin as that's what our Founding Fathers used exclusively.
As I said, it's a mindset. If you want to be "real" Americans...... you'll welcome the return of the dollar coin as that's what our Founding Fathers used exclusively.
As a former American history teacher, who taught from a textbook heavily supplemented by actual writings from the Founding Fathers and their contemporaries, I could easily take offense at this statement. Instead, having some knowledge of history and debate, I can see this statement for what it is.
Today's society has divorced themselves from what the Founding Father's intended for this nation to be. Never before would actual self-proclaimed communist have been allowed to be in a position of power in DC (Van Jones). The current mindset of Americans who would allow such a thing to occur without standing up against it shows the education system if the past 20 some years has failed miserably in defining what being American means. A lot of modern statements claiming to be knowledgeable of the initial intents of our founders have been fed a fantasy version of actual history and have no concept of being duped.
The fact that the dollar coins are mostly sitting in vaults b/c they have been rejected by the American people is obvious fact. For those who desire such a crazy thing (tongue in cheek), that the wish of the American people is not to use them. The Kennedy half dollar was a precedent to this - people said they were too heavy. And although the current baby dollars are smaller, and despite naysayers who have obviously not read the other threads in which we discussed this and went into the Canadians initial rejection of dollar coins based on not wanting heavy pockets - as proven by references to their own media at the time of The coin introduction - the weight in pocket issue is a real thing. But people can continue to ignore the facts if they so wish. It is the current trend anyway. Fact and truth are irrelevant to what I or any other person desire to be fact. And of course, let's not forget to use the common - more often left - tool of throwing out the word "anecdotal" in an attempt to make fact sound irrelevant.
The material a dollar is composed of has nothing to do with patriotism. Normally, in debate, statements made out of context as such are an indication the person preferring the statement are emotionally, instead of factually, motivated. Whether the current case is such, I do not know. I am simply stating fact.
I also would disagree strongly with the statement made to the effect that a lot of what the government does for us is best. I cite the financially troubled agencies such as SS, USPS, Medicair, Medicaid, etc. The intentions of some government agencies/people may be intended for our good. But our current levels of debt and overwhelming red tape show otherwise.
The government would be "forcing" us to use baby dollars b/c Americans have overwhelmingly rejected the dollar coin (whether or not we think they are stupid for doing this is irrelevant - it has been done. Hence giving the American people no other option is the government forcing the American people to use something they have rejected.
Since Americans accepted, willingly to use quarters etc., it is comparing apples and oranges to use the concept of people's usage of quarters with their rejection of the dollar coins. If Americans had rejected quarters and the government only gave us quarters to use, this would be forcing us to use them.
And, BTW, no one is forced to use American money. Offer a merchant a solid silver coin sometime, or a piece of gold and see how often they reject it. Normally, as proven by the many silver barter currencies, people will not put them in the cash register, but redeem them for themselves and pocket the silver.
The government is a representative of the people. Modern trends try to define the government as our masters and our nanny. When the American people speak, and overwhelmingly have an opinion, a true American government, elected by the people, should be honor-bound, on the trust of those they promised to carry out their wishes if elected, to make sure the people who elected them are truly represented.
No, the American people are not perfect and might not always make the right choices - as history has shown, but coercion by higher officials was a major concept our Founding Fathers were trying to minimize.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
this is a good discussion. Let me add
