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Ethics Question

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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2013  6:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Legally, Dave did nothing wrong. Ethically, he did.

Dave did nothing wrong legally or ethically, He simply "Got lucky" on a coin purchase

if I bought a bulk lot of coins and later found a rare coin in the lot, I certainly would NOT feel obliged to the seller in anyway.
I would however let them know that I found the coin and thank them for the purchase.

Come on you guys, This is what we do as collectors.
Most of us buy coins in the hope of getting a great deal or maybe something exceptional.
What would happen if anyone of you found a rare coin in your change or from the bank
I very much doubt that you would go running back and give the coin back to them

This "dave" Bloke is blameless and more luck to him I recon
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2013  6:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agreed with trout. Dave owes no allegiance to the dealer, it isn't his job to do the dealers work for him.

The only way he would have done anything ethically wrong would be if he managed to slip that coin into the pile and the dealer didnt notice. Since it doesn't sound like thats the case and the dealer just gave him a pile with that in it he did everything that was expected of him.

Think of it a lot like a bartender. Theyre friendly with you at work because thats how they make money, if they see you out in town though it doesn't mean they feel any allegiance too you other than to be friendly
Pillar of the Community
United States
511 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2013  9:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 3stooges to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
General bourse floor "etiquette" goes like this.

Dealer to dealer can be law of the jungle, although it doesn't have to be that way. There are a lot of friendships and informal alliances among dealers.

Dealers are supposed to be ethical with collectors. It doesn't always happen, but there are a lot of decent, honest guys in the business.

What happens in a situation like the previous one? I had something similar happen once, although there wasn't nearly as much money at stake.

I asked a dealer I knew fairly well for a price on a 1921-D Mercury dime in an ANACS VF-25 holder. He looked at the coin and quoted me Fine bid ($125 or so) instead of the VF price of $250.

"You might want to check that price again," I said. This dealer had a great expression of relief when he saw the true value. I had done a fair volume of buying from him over several years and was always treated well and given competitive prices. It was payback time for one of the good guys in the business.
Valued Member
elfof4sky's Avatar
United States
64 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2013  10:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add elfof4sky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Respectfully, I'm still being quoted and misinterpreted. Being guilty and feeling guilty are two different things. I said "feeling guilty", which then presents an ethical problem of virtue which has NOTHING to do with any of us outside observers. We know he felt this (don't deny him his humanity) and we know know he struggled (let me capitalize that) STRUGGLED with what to do about his feeling of guilt. That struggle is the ethical problem for the buyer (not you or me because we don't feel the guilt). And I offered the solution for the buyer (not you or me) to solve the ethical problem that only he faces because it is a problem of virtue. Thanks for taking the time to understand what I just wrote and reviewing my solution to his ethical problem. I think it's a good solution but, maybe someone has a better one.
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Gyrene7483's Avatar
United States
1704 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2013  11:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gyrene7483 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I asked a dealer I knew fairly well for a price on a 1921-D Mercury dime in an ANACS VF-25 holder. He looked at the coin and quoted me Fine bid ($125 or so) instead of the VF price of $250.

"You might want to check that price again," I said. This dealer had a great expression of relief when he saw the true value. I had done a fair volume of buying from him over several years and was always treated well and given competitive prices. It was payback time for one of the good guys in the business.
Not the same type of scenario here. What you did was the right thing to do because to have paid that dealer for a coin you knew was mistakenly under priced would have been unethical.

Dave bought a group of silver dollars from a dealer who should have checked each and every one when he purchased them so he would know exactly what he was getting for his money. He didn't and he didn't bother to go through them later as it turned out or the '93-s would not have been in the bunch of dollars Dave bought.

Every dealer I know with a B&M shop or not looks at each and every coin they buy for both the condition and date/mm so they don't over pay and to give the seller a fair price for their coins. One guy last year paid $900.00 for an XF-45 1909-S VDB a woman had in with fourteen other very common wheat back cents. He paid Three Cents each for the rest and they all went in his Wheat cent jar priced by the pound. She had no clue she had such a valuable coin. The dealer was very happy to have bought such a nice rare coin. He sold it for $1,100.00.

Ed
ANA LM-3175
Valued Member
CanadianCollector's Avatar
Canada
306 Posts
 Posted 05/01/2013  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CanadianCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dave did nothing wrong. I would perhaps feel differently if he had mislead a person into believing it was only worth $7. Even then though, with google it literally takes 2 minutes to find out if a coin is common or rare and valuable. The dealer of all people should really have taken the time to make sure there was no key date Morgans in the pile.
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SaintRidley's Avatar
United States
592 Posts
 Posted 05/01/2013  4:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SaintRidley to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm confused. I thought the OP was going to be an ethical question, but all I see is a perfectly unambiguous situation. Good on Dave.
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