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 Replies: 587 / Views: 65,057 |
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
 United States
12282 Posts |
Quote:
The US mint found a way. That is not correct. The US Mint does not sell bullion coins directly to the public; they only sell limited edition, collector versions of the coins to the public. Bullion coins are only sold to a small number of distributors who then sell the coins to dealers. Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
Quote:Profits aren't a measure of funding though the RCM has paid some dividends to the Government of Canada in recent years. A delicate balance between corporate autonomy and public control. |
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Valued Member
Canada
99 Posts |
Based on all the conversations I have seen here I thought I would add in what the mint store in Ottawa had to say. You can use a 20 for 20 coin towards a purchase but we won't exhcnage it for a 20 dollar bill. That seems rather intresting to me. I understand no one has to accept a form of payment but when the mint itself says it is like a 20 dollar bill but they refuse to trade for one it seems a little odd to me. I agree the 100 for 100 will sell out and carry a slight premium but based on what I just heard from the mint, I don't see as many people buying these as you can't convert it to cash. Although its intent was never to spend, 100 dollar coins start adding up for people when they are blah designs and the liquidity becomes a real problem.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
590 Posts |
We have already agreed previous, not in this discussion, that financial logic has no place in coin collecting. But as an investor I buy silver to hedge against inflation and hopefully to make money. So if I buy 10 of these coins and buy $1000 in silver bullion I will have spent the same amount of money. If silver double I will have $2000 in bullion and ten coins worth $100 that I can't cash in anywhere. Makes no sense to me.
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Valued Member
Canada
99 Posts |
So the mint also told me that you shouldn't have to wait 6 months for the bank to despoit funds in your account. I was told they're suppose to know how to deal with this and either to get them to call the mint or tell the mint and the mint will call. I understand this has been discussed previously but this is quite intresting. The mint is saying one thing and everyone else is saying another yet the mint themseleves don't want to exchange the 20 for 20 coin for true cash (I know they aren't a bank but still). I understand a bank waiting to see they're approved by the mint but the mint said it shouldn't take long as the funds should be immediately in your account. Intresting as from the banks perspective I wouldn't want to take the risk/ take the time with these things.
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Rest in Peace
Canada
1360 Posts |
Using your logic Dooby Rak, What would you rather be holding should the price of silver fall? (say reduced by 1/2) If you have 10 x $100 coins, (and the mint's exchange system is in place and honoured), you will still have $1000. At (eg)$25/oz of silver, you'll have 40 ounces now valued at $12.50/ounce. Yes, they'll still be worth $500 with face value of only $200. What if Silver falls to historic lows? Say $2/ounce... now your in a terrible state - only $200 remains of your original $1000 at face value, or.... more than likely, you'll only be able to get market for the silver as it is considered bullion.
We've bantered this back and forth forever - I have to take the mint, and Bank of Canada at their word that $100 is $100 regardless of metal content... after all $1.00 loon has less than a dimes worth of metal but it's still viable.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
815 Posts |
Loonie = LT RCM products = NCLT |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
590 Posts |
@Dcadon If silver devalues to that point nobody will exchange these coins for face value. The law does not require anybody to honor this currency. No financial institution, pawnbroker, or even the Mint will give $100 for this coin at that point. You won't even get $15 for them on ebay. Silver is an industrial metal and in short supply. The only way silver could devalue to that low a price is if we find a substitute for its industrial applications and if a massive new load is discovered. Silver is the only metal that can not be recovered after being used industrially. Just buy silver and stay away from this garbage coin as an investment. Keep $100 bill if you want something you can use later to buy stuff. $100 bill will always be accepted. |
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Valued Member
Canada
233 Posts |
Quote:If silver devalues to that point nobody will exchange these coins for face value. The law does not require anybody to honor this currency. No financial institution, pawnbroker, or even the Mint will give $100 for this coin at that point. You won't even get $15 for them on ebay. Let's make a deal! I promise that if silver value goes to 2$, I will buy ALL 100$for100$ that you will bring to me for 30$... this is more than twice what you expect from ebay. I would buy the whole 50,000 mintage if people bring them to me. I don't know why people are still arguing about the fact that this IS legal tender! Non-circulating yes, but still Legal Tender! Banks WILL take them, these one will never sell below 100$... or maybe 95$ because of the "hassle" of going to the banks. This is called arbitrage. Say anything you want folks, legal tender is legal tender! The only way it can lose value is with the country being bankrupt... Edited by TIPIT
05/01/2013 3:08 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
99 Posts |
@ TIPIT
Totally agree with what you are saying. They are legal tender but it seems to be a real pain to cash them in is my point. Supposedly 6 months by the banks. Since this is a service the bank is providing are they not free to charge you what they want to? I mean it costs them time to deal with the coin which is money, someone has to pay for that. So despite it being legal tender will you actually get full face value from a bank etc at the end of the day?
Again not saying it isn't legal tender just find it suprising it is a hassle to deal with even at the mint who makes the coin and has let everyone know they are legal tender. If this is the case why not allow an exchange of a 20 coin for a 20 dollar bill? Again realize they don't have to do this but then again won't most buisness's break a 20 into 10's or 5's for someone? This seems similar and the fact that they make the coin makes me scratch my head even more. Thats my 2 cents. I mean I love the 20 for 20 program and will continue getting me one but I am not sure I want to tie up 100 bucks on a coin for a series when half the coins are Blah and I get cash it in if need be.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
590 Posts |
Quote:
Banks WILL take them, these one will never sell below 100$If you walk into a bank with $100 worth of pennies in a bag they have the right to turn you away. So if everyone rejects this coin and nobody will exchange your coin for $100 what is it worth? What ever the base metal is worth or what people are willing to pay, that's called fair market pricing. If silver goes to $2 you will be able to pick these up for a buck or two. The amount of coins that have been devalued and become junk will be astronomical. The $100 on the face is just symbolic at that point. |
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Valued Member
Canada
99 Posts |
@ Dooby Rak
I have to disagree here, the coin is worth $100 even is silver is worth a nickel. The coin is NCLT Non Circulating LEGAL TENDER meaning whatever is printed on it is what it is worth. I mean you can say the same thing about a 100 dollar bill that it is only worth the polymer and ink content which is not the case. What this is turning into is a discussion about when our monteary system will fail which is not the point. It isn't going to happen any time soon regardless of what people think of fiat currency in Canada. The issue here is why is it so difficult to deal with these Legal Tender coins as the mint keeps stating? Like I said before if they are legal tender why won't the mint allow an exchange instead of forcing everyone to go to the bank and potentially get hit with processing fees and long delays?
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Valued Member
Canada
99 Posts |
I think the issue is the marketting of these coins more or less. It seems leading to me that they are legal tender yet try dealing with them. If we just called it a 20 for 20 coin and the mint didn't make the big deal about it being legal tender we wouldn't be in this issue. The issue is when the mint states this and won't let you take a a coin into the store to get a 20 dollar bill (understand there are problems here but yeah). Sure the banks will take them through the RCM process but it is a real pain in the a**. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
590 Posts |
If nobody is obligated to take it and banks can refuse it and the mint wont exchange is it real money or are we just being fooled to think so. If its a hassle to exchange and you will loose money in doing so is it worth buying for anything other than as a collectable? It might be legal tender but the law says I don't have to see it as being money. It would be different if it was called a $20 coin or $100 coin, buts its not recognized as such by anybody. Buy it if you like it. but don't waste your time with this as an investment.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2764 Posts |
Legal Tender, per online dictionary: "Legally valid currency that may be offered in payment of a debt and that a creditor must accept."
Note: The key word her is DEBT.
If you own people/government money and/or they send you a bill, you can just send them the coin and they MUST accept. They may give you a hard time, however they do have to accept them. Here's the catch, if you go to the extreme as in an American a few year back brought in a truck load of US cents ($20K+ or something like that) to the bank to pay off his mortgage..... the can argue that they can only accept a certain amount each day (written in the law - certain limit on the quantity of coins per transaction) because they don't have the capacity to accept them all at one.
So, you can't use the coin (NCLT) to buy stuffs but you can always pay your bill with it. End of story and end of argument.
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Replies: 587 / Views: 65,057 |
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Posted 04/30/2013 11:53 pm
