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 Replies: 37 / Views: 3,958 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
827 Posts |
some are people are indeed silly. few days ago I posted something that clearly had the website's name of where it came from, if the buyer would have had the sense to go to the website that was pictured on the item for sale, they could have purchased the same item the bidded up for only about $15 yet they ended up bidding it up to approx $55. I sometimes feel sorry for them, but then again you can't help but laugh at some of the bidder's ignorance. Oh well, ebay can prove to be a real psychological trip the way people bid there lol. |
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Moderator
 United States
6563 Posts |
CCF Staff, Can we please add "cotton headed ninny muggins" to the Glossary section? I believe it to be a very useful term in describing a certain aspect of an uninformed seller that has yet to find the light of CCF.  |
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Valued Member
United States
259 Posts |
greed isn't illegal, fraud and misrepresentation is. Many criminal statutes prohibit taking someone's money thru deception.
We can blame the buyer for bidding so high on a dubious offering like this one, but many laws & rules protect people from themselves.
The only sense I can make of this is that the buyer knew he wasn't getting a real 1804 silver dollar and figured that he could flip it to some other clueless loser on E-bay. As I read on another board, it's getting to be just operators and victims out there.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2703 Posts |
If he knew it was fake and just wanted to flip it, why didn't just buy one the the replicas for sale on ebay and run the same con? This really looks to me like a perfect scam - brilliantly executed by the seller - now both the buyer and the seller are congratulating themselves, thinking, "boy, I really ripped that guy off!" |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
You can't blame the guy? I can blame him if he represents that he is selling an "1804 silver dollar" if it is not, in fact, an 1804 silver dollar. That is fraud and misrepresentation. It is theft.
So who would you blame, the buyer? It's their bad because they assumd that an item listed on E-bay was what it was represented to be? If that is true, then E-bay is just a trap for the unwary and it's just buyer beware. I think E-bay just has to police this type of auction better.
Read the auction. It's not possible to still believe it's real after reading the auction. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
259 Posts |
I'm just wondering, though, if the buyer gets the coin and determines it is a fake and then returns it for a refund, will the seller give him his money back? There was no return policy, so I suppose the seller doesn't have to. Morally, he should, but I don't think he is obligated to.
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Personally, my favorite is the NGC forums, which insert "*spoon*" in place of all undesirable words. I think that's hilarious.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
Actually, on ebay the seller has to warrant that the coin is genuine and if the buyer pays buy PayPal then they are supposed to be protected from such shenanigans. |
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Valued Member
United States
259 Posts |
As to SuperDave's comment (BTW, is that moniker based on Super Dave Osborne? I loved that guy), "Read the auction. It's not possible to still believe it's real after reading the auction" -- while you don't think it's real - and I wouldn't have bid because of all the red flags - many people did bid. They must have thought it was real.
So if it turns out to be a fake, and the buyer files an "Item Not as Described" claim with E-bay, will the buyer win? I think they should. I doubt E-bay will deny the claim on the grounds that no reasonable person would have believed this coin was real. I'm pretty sure from what I've read that E-bay doesn't allow fakes to be sold in the coin category unless they are clearly labeled as copies or replicas.
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
So if it turns out to be a fake, and the buyer files an "Item Not as Described" claim with E-bay, will the buyer win?
I would think so. As has been mentioned, this auction clearly violates ebay's required certification of genuineness by the seller. I do not disagree that the seller knows better, and swallowed a healthy portion of his morals before posting the auction. However, there were plenty of flags in there to alert all but the most unobservant of bidders. Checking into the bidding, I saw the winner seems to be one of the unobservant types. The underbidder is very likely a greedy type, based on his fairly large feedback and long tenure. And Dave Osborne based his character on me.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts |
So, if I read this right, should the seller have put a disclaimer on this such as: "I understand that this would be a very rare coin and I guess it could be a copy." Then he would have fulfilled his obligation and the entire problem becomes that of the buyer, correct? And, what if the seller truly does not know what the coin is or if it is real. Would not that simple statement of fact be enough of a disclaimer to shift culpability entirely to the buyer? Unless, as in this case, it is obviously fraudulent because of the coin he chose to use. However, what if it was one of the knock-off Morgans where it very easily could be authentic. Then his attempt to defraud becomes much less clear with the above disclaimer. It seems to me that it will always be "Caveat emptor". Jim Oh, yea, spoons would be cool, just not as catchy as "cotton-headed ninny muggin".   Edited by Jim1953
06/04/2007 9:54 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
Even if the seller had placed a disclaimer, the offer for sale was for an item described as genuine per the ebay user agreement. Regardless of what the seller thought about the coin, the "click" made to list the item explicitly asks if the coin is genuine. In the case of a discrepancy, I believe the onus would be on the seller to right the wrong either by refunding the buyer's money or providing a genuine 1804 dollar. |
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Valued Member
 United States
235 Posts |
What gets me is the fact that on the same ebay page, right next to this listing, were two buy-it-now listings for an 1804 silver dollar replica for $9.99. DUH! Wouldn't that give the buyer a clue that the coin might be a replica and $308 too much to pay? With all the disclaimers about authenticity and other replica offerings, there is no "justifiable reliance" on an affirmative misrepresentation needed for a common law fraud claim. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts |
Houston Guy, I did not know that there were replicas listed right next to this listing. Now, that makes me very curious about the bidders. I have heard it said here that lots of bids bring lots of bidders. What are the chances that these were shill bidders? Would make this whole thing make a lot more sense. Jim  |
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Replies: 37 / Views: 3,958 |
First Page
Posted 06/04/2007 5:12 pm
Maybe we could add a subroutine that just automatically inserts "cotton-headed ninny muggins" whenever someone submits a post with the more objectionable terms, so we can avoid maroon, ultramaroon, and all of those other shades of red flags...
