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 Replies: 217 / Views: 30,590 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
576 Posts |
Thanks for the information all.
Liverpool
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
well i was looking for some other coins yesterday on silvertownes site. You can imagine my shock but not surprise at the price slash on this coin. Silvertowne now has it for 70 USD.... Back in March of this year, I said repeatedly that the price would go lower. It did. What is crazy is how this coin has taken almost a 50 percent hair cut from its mint retail price. If one searches ebay auctions for this coin,,, well its going for 52, 54... This is one reason I have been dragging my feet on almost all coins, especially RCM. Prices are tumbling and coming down hard and will continue to do so until PM prices find a floor. Finally, this adds to my conviction to AVOID buying the initial offering of any mint offerings that are done in conjunction with a dealer and offered as an exclusive. Clearly these coins bomb in price the hardest so its better to wait, wait , wait and wait until prices find a floor. |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
2360 Posts |
Just thinking, when a commercial entity blows out
stock, and inventory is valued at the lowest of cost
or market value, is the value of that inventory held
by others now at the blow out price level. The
commercial entity wants to convert inventory to cash,
so incenting the population to buy with a soft price.
They get the cash but the market is left in turmoil
bacause the price was so low. A few recent cases,
Glow in the Dark Dinos $169 for 4, Silvertown deal
on 1 oz. Fine Silver Coin Maple Leaf Impression.
With e-bay and individual sellers, it is a new market,
they can choose to sell at a higher price point and
can outlast the discount sellers with a higher price,
just holding their ground, but will they sell with
the low price options out there. It may take a while
longer to sell but it will come. I never see the
e-bay seller discount their coins to the extent that
Silvertowne or Colonial Acres does. For me to now
value my coins at this discounted level would make me
cringe. I love a deal, but I think this institutional
sell off is causing prices of nclt to drop.
Edited by SilverDon
11/15/2014 05:33 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1751 Posts |
Silverdon here's my experience as an ebay seller. The points you raise are valid and have some truth. True when a seller like silvertown has sales as you've pointed out on a few select coins, it can have a temp effect. Notice they've raised their prices again on maple leaf impression, it close to $71. It's sort of like a grocery stores loss leader. It brings in the shopper, in hopes he'll make other impulse purchases. Not all of the shopping population will be aware of the deal either. The lower price would need to also be offered by other retailers as well, before a lower price point would stick. It's like, how price start to rise across the board on a hot coin. When selling on ebay there's a wide variety of prices! Those which can wait will receive the highest return. No every buyer is a bargain hunter . There's a bunch of ebay sellers from Winnipeg who routinely get top dollar, sometimes prices they realize are double the going rate, especially when Bin is used. A couple who come to mind are: little Debbie's fun stuff / Cash Cananda , both sellers have 100% Feedback and repeat customers. I usually get top dollar for my sales because I wait. I also have 100% Feedback. Of course I don't get anywhere the prices of sellers mentioned. The thing to Remember is: the selling price is - whatever the two parties involved are willing to agree to. Or whatever the buyer is willing to pay. Not all buyers use the same criteria when shopping/ different things will be important to different buyers. I hope this helps some! |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2360 Posts |
Thanks for this @pocket change,
I haven't bought off e-bay, just a bit paranoid of
getting ripped off, dealing with institutions I seem
to have a bit of confidence in return policies and
quality issues. But the price issue, I agree, waiting
for the customer you want to deal with and is willing
to pay a better price may be time consuming but if you
have the time is the way to go in selling, rather
than getting 1/2 value from the dealers or LCS's.
Just seeing some sort of desperation in the selling
price of some coins from institutional dealers.
The volumes can't make up for the prices they charge,
they have to be taking a loss. When I snipe these
coins on sale, I usually don't buy anything else,
so not like I'm going in for the bread on special
and picking up steaks, but just purchasing the
bread on special, I'll get my steaks when they
are on sale.
Edited by SilverDon
11/15/2014 08:03 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
I am just blown away how prices are dropping and dropping hard. I just saw the Duck coins are also imploding.. CA wants before shipping for a 3 coin set something like 151 and change USD.. so roughly 50 something a coin.... I remember those being up there, almost double.
I could be wrong but it appears dealers must have anywhere from a 50-60% mark up and that has got to depend on how much they buy.
which in turn makes me think that these lower prices become even lower.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1528 Posts |
Don't forget these dealers usually have about 15% or more discount from RCM. So yes, even if they sell some of the coins for half price, they may only loose about 35%. Yes on surface they are loosing money but I am sure they sold some at regular price that they technically made (at least 15% profit on). Yes, many that are like Silverdon, only visit the site to purchase the discount coin and nothing else, But still, they gained SilverDon as a customer and SilverDon now know where to come to get the discount coin. You may ask, what's there to gain for SilverTowne to have such customer that only buy discounted coin that SilverTowne does not make money on. Well, the advantage is SilverTowne have someone that come to help liquidate some of the coins for them. Yes they loose money but they manage to convert the coins (that sit there and don't generate money and taking up space and cash) and use that money to buy other coins that might help them get the money they lost in these transaction. So let just say, company A brought the coin that retail at $100 for $85. They purchased 100 of these coins ($8500). Out of these 100 coins, they manage to sell 30 of them at retail price (3000, profit of $450). They sold the remainder of the coins for half price ($3500). So out of the $8500 they initially invest, they got $6500 back. Which mean they are down $2000 which is about 23.5% losses. But they can use this $6500 on other coin that may help them recoup the losses of $2000. They also now lured new customer or kept some of the customers that are deal seeker. So in future, if they need to liquidate other coins, they know they have people that would buy them. They may loose 50% on some coin, but they are not loosing 100%. These folks that comes to look for deal will visit the site regularly for deals and may tell other. Some of these may have no monetary value attach to them but it help gain or maintain customers. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
With 30% discounts to the largest RCM dealers, how does the RCM only generate a 1.5% return for the last many years, that is why a company like silvertown can discount so harshly on a commissioned coin. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
The thing I think of also is.... man, what if every single person that bought this coin at 99 gets wind that they bought at 99 and now is going as low as mid 50's on ebay?  I mean this is a nice coin, I like it, I have been contemplating the thought of getting one,, and to me, 69 isn't bad compared to 99 and then seeing now mid 50s on ebay.. is like,, Ok I can wait for that or less.... |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6768 Posts |
Quote:The thing I think of also is.... man, what if every single person that bought this coin at 99 gets wind that they bought at 99 and now is going as low as mid 50's on ebay? If I not buying the coin at the release, from RCM, except the rare cases, after couple of mounts, I already not interested, cause there are always new coins comes. It probably wrong budget managing, but I do not like to look back after the coins that I didn't buy. Being now extra-selective, I selling some NCLTs that bought in rush. Since I not really "professional" seller, 60%-65% from the issue price - this is what usually all, even "hot" coins goes. Edited by Silveroid
11/15/2014 4:23 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
@Silveroid Yea I agree with what you are saying. I just am thinking, we all have X amount of dollars we like to devote to our hobby. In the case of this coin, at 100 dollars, you can now afford to buy two coins for what would take up one coin... just by being patient and waiting. What I been doing for a while now is a wish list of coins I want going forward, and this Piedfort has been on the wish list, but I immediately put it on hold when I saw the prices tanking, thinking exactly this would happen... its just like wow... tho, the prices are really coming down. Just like I want the 2014 ANA privy marked silver leaf coin but the price on those I am sure are going to drop soon also and so on and so on... so like you, all across the board, I am being super, extra selective on coins. In fact I am no longer interested for the time being, in coins that are say 700+... |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
2124 Posts |
yup7676 your point is valid. But there is a bunch of people who still buy directly from the RCM, so, at a issue price. More over, to remain as a Master Club member you have to buy at least $1,000 per year. Read the coin's feedback at the RCM web page, sometimes you'll laugh, but it's the reality. I agree with pocket_change that for most low level seller, they can just wait for the right customer, not in hurry to liquidate items. Big dealers are different. They need constantly selling so they can lose on an item but they get a profit on the next one. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2360 Posts |
The coins keep on coming, every month,
the Canada Post people don't know where to put them,
they are discounted 25% after one year at CP, sometimes
50%, I bought 2 Group of 7 coins at 25% off and one 50%,
the reality is that an LCS can't afford to keep big inventories
and depends on getting full price, they
will be the ones that suffer for the blow out specials,
them and the ebay seller unfortunate enough to have that
coin for sale on the day Silvertown or whomever decides
to blow it out.
Edited by SilverDon
11/15/2014 9:13 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6768 Posts |
Quote:
I just am thinking, we all have X amount of dollars we like to devote to our hobby.
In the case of this coin, at 100 dollars, you can now afford to buy two coins for what would take up one coin... just by being patient and waiting. No doubts in this at all. And current extra selectivity in order to put my limited amount of 'X' in the best, and prevent these sales for 60%. And again, the coins, that I will decide buy, for sure will drop value in the future ...as always. Just checked for example the sales of the 2012 Mongolia Hedgehog - near $200 (!), some near $400, but not $500-$600 as 2 years ago. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1751 Posts |
Wow I have been on for a day, what a great discussion! Speaking as a hobby seller, I can wait for my price because, it's a coin I like, I'm just trying to see if it will sell higher, so I can buy again at cheaper cost from someone doing a blow out. I think we as forum members forget not all collectors look for bargain prices. Some people may have the money, that they don't really care what they pay, if there like something. Where others are concerned with getting the best bang for the buck. An example people that chase registry sets. I'd image it take money to always be in top spot. My buddy in Az sends in 4-5 of the same coin hoping to get Pr70, the pr69 are auctioned off. I've picked up great deals from him, his scanner is lousy on slabbed coins, so bad pics, low auction price. I take good pics do a write up and a 20%-30% profit . It's these sales of RCM coins that happen regularly, that has me only wanting the $ 4 $ coins or a hot one mint direct. It's just occurred to me, maybe this is why the mint is offering personal reps! It's an effort to retain customers and generate more sales. The thinking could go, give a rep - customer thinks they're prestigious - having a rep others don't. Therefore said customer will buy more coins, so they can keep prestigious Rep. This may be the new marketing strategy!! I'm sure I don't buy enough to warrent getting a Rep. I was quite happy doing web orders. I had less mix ups!! Like SilverDon I shop sales. Regarding groceries as example: the 1st of each month IGA gives 15% so I comb the flyer for even more savings, and I stock pile non perishables we use. I get my monthly grocery supply with the 15% off. Rarely does my son need to get groceries before the next 15% off. We've saved a bunch of money doing it this way. I'm the same with my coins the past 6 months or so. I've a wish list like Yup, and I snipe like Silverdon. Lately I've just started to trade with forum members as another way to save. Great conversation!! |
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Posted 11/15/2014 03:27 am
