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Possible New Favorite-Kidarite - Big Huns - Small Kushan

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Ancientnoob's Avatar
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5155 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2013  6:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ancientnoob to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
As Kushan splendor had all but evaporated, the empire fell in two parts, The Western Kushan based in Afghanistan met there end after repeat incursions by the Sassanian Persians who deposed the dynasty and established the Kushan Shahs in around 248 AD. The Eastern Kushan (based in Punjab) extended their territory into the Gangeic plane of India, which would first fracture into several small kingdoms and republics and eventually meet its destruction by the advance of the Gupta Empire and the invasion of a people known in India as the Huna.

In the years that followed the Persian empire was ill prepared to control the many vassals of the Kushan Empire and a power kingdom sprang up, thought to be of Hunnic origin. The Kidarite. The Kidarite also known as the Small Kushan sought to preserve the splendor of the Kushan Empire and this particular ruler even named him self THE KUSHAN. In 360 AD the Kushan Shah was ousted and a new King came to power. His name was Kidara of which the tribe of Red Huns was named. The silver coinage of the Kidarite is both rare, expensive and short lived.

This is the second most expensive coin I ever purchased and I still feel like I couldn't live with out it.

I would love to hear what you guys think about this most recent acquisition. I am sure when this shows up at the door, the explanation to the little lady will start with the word..."Hun"

Sellers Photo and Discription....my photo and description will be updated in the near future!

Bust of king facing slightly right, wearing crown with streamers, KIDARA KU-SANASA in Brahmi above / Fire altar flanked by attendants, SULAKHA in Brahmi below. 29mm, 4.11 grams. Kabul mint (?). Göbl, Hunnen Em. 11; MACW -.
Superb quality beautiful coin, probably inspired by the Sassanian silver drachms of Shapur III. This piece is sharply struck on a vary large flan. Rare!

Oh and I for got to mention it was struck in 360 AD! I suppose that makes in ancient no matter which Kool-Aid you drink.

Oh and I got a wicked good deal on this piece....


Possible-New-Favorite-Kidarite---Big-Huns---Small-Kushan
Edited by Ancientnoob
10/12/2013 6:44 pm
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2013  6:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful coin, I know it set you back quite a bit but It was well worth it just to have one of these rare examples. Congrats.
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ThisIsFun's Avatar
United States
2480 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2013  6:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ThisIsFun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Too cool. Even better with the history you always provide with your posts.

Is the facing portrait really uncommon in these coins?
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Ancientnoob's Avatar
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5155 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2013  7:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ancientnoob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ah Ski- your right. You know I mulled over this coin for weeks, hoping no one else saw this awesome piece. Its rare and its even rarer in superb condition. I satisfies the need for a Kidarite coin, a Hun, a silver, large coin, and 3 /4 bust. With it in hand I will be able to determine if it is indeed scyphate as it appears. The seller assured me I that he wished he could find a better example.

I have a seen pictures of a few with a little bit better obverse details but for me and my limited budget those are unobtainable.

I find this coin interesting simply because it emphasizes the situation of 4th century world. Rome is occupied with civil wars and religious unrest and this is where we see the decline of western coinage. Small crappy bronzes are made, little care is taken in making coins as beautiful or as intrinsically valuable as they once were.

At this time this Nomadic vassal state (tribe) of the former Kushan Empire, rises up and carves out a large piece of North Pakistan and Afghanistan forced the then might Shahs of Persia to acknowledge the Kidarite State. (340-360 AD)

During the reign of Peroz (457-484 AD) a mixed army of Persian and Hephthalite Huns defeated the Kidarite and at that point disappear from the historical record. It is currently unknown how the power transferred from the Kidarite to the Hephthalites but it is certain that Peroz would fall in battle after launching a campaign against his former allies those same Hephthalites.

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Ancientnoob's Avatar
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 Posted 10/12/2013  7:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ancientnoob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are a few facing bust types, fewer as well designed as this one.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2013  9:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting piece made all the more interesting, backed up by the fact that you now an example of the 'hardware'. The facts of the history behind it now more current in your mind, much akin to knowledge of modern history.

I always have misgivings about buying expensive coins, but as latter months roll by after purchase, those misgivings are gradually forgotten, leaving you to fully appreciate what you now have in your collection.
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 Posted 10/13/2013  07:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Extraordinary piece. 29mm 4.11 grams !
Make a little box for it marked
***HANDLE WITH CARE***
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Ancientnoob's Avatar
United States
5155 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2013  8:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ancientnoob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am thinking of coming up with some kind of box.
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2013  9:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting read, nice coin - it does not surprise me it was expensive.
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2013  9:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting read, nice coin - it does not surprise me it was expensive.
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ThisIsFun's Avatar
United States
2480 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2013  9:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ThisIsFun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One of these suspension boxes might look nice:
Possible-New-Favorite-Kidarite---Big-Huns---Small-Kushan
http://www.riogrande.com/Product/40085211

4x4", $8.40. Larger sizes available.

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chrsmat71's Avatar
United States
4981 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2013  10:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chrsmat71 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
that's one of the coolest "fire altar" coins, love the facing bust.
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Dutchgulden's Avatar
Netherlands
1204 Posts
 Posted 10/14/2013  11:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutchgulden to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
really nice Anoob!
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Ancientnoob's Avatar
United States
5155 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2013  7:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ancientnoob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
UPDATE:

My photo!




Possible-New-Favorite-Kidarite---Big-Huns---Small-Kushan
Edited by Ancientnoob
10/18/2013 7:26 pm
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ThisIsFun's Avatar
United States
2480 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2013  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ThisIsFun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great coin :)

A suggestion-- the reverse devices might photograph better with low oblique light coming from ~4:00-5:00. In your photo, it's coming from directly opposite and is somewhat blocked by the (apparently) slightly upraised rim. I suspect the features would be displayed more attractively/accurately if lit from the other position.
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Ancientnoob's Avatar
United States
5155 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2013  7:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ancientnoob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Analysis noted and will reshoot...thanks TIF... I took several in hand photos and I think they do catch the shape of the coin more accurately.
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