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July 2014 Release

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pocket change 50's Avatar
Canada
1751 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2014  6:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pocket change 50 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Anyone notice that the issue prices are continuing to slightly increase? There seems to be more and more 1 Oz silver coins priced above $100. I find this a disturbing trend, the mint seems intent on sucking any appreciation on coins for itself. One coin that really stands out for me is the Empress of Ireland, a nice coin worth only $100, in my opinion. It's a color coin just like the hologram river rapids. Yet it doesn't have any special effects, it comparable to the color eagle.

These are just my observations, anyone care to share there opinions?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
6768 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2014  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silveroid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
These are just my observations, anyone care to share there opinions?


together with general increase of their prices, they've started to issue more coins with different effects:
coloured, enameled, gilded...etc - and all these coins have prices bit higher, than traditional proof finish.
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commems's Avatar
United States
12311 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2014  7:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...the mint seems intent on sucking any appreciation on coins for itself.

Absolutely spot on with this comment!

I think the RCM saw how much above issue price collectors were willing to pay for certain popular coins and realized that they were leaving money on the table.

I guess you can't blame them for wanting to maximize their profits, but I think they've swung the pendulum too far the other way. Collectors like to feel their is some upside potential in the coins they purchase. For most current RCM issues, this is a very unlikely scenario.

Like many others here on CCF, I believe the large number of coins the RCM is releasing (200+ per year) is having a detrimental effect on the secondary market for the RCM's modern products.

Too many coins featuring too many themes - it's tough for the vast majority to gain traction with collectors. No traction = no price appreciation.




Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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kuh_85's Avatar
Canada
2366 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2014  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kuh_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

When the price differential between issue price and secondary market wasn't so great a few of years back I decided to just keep ordering from the RCM as the convenience was worth maybe paying a few bucks more. That price differential is a lot larger now and I am seriously reconsidering my approach to collecting. I would be VERY surprised if we ever see another Lady Bug the way things are going.
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stampvirgin's Avatar
United States
1247 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2014  9:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stampvirgin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
why would the Canadian mint sell 1oz silver coins so high above spot?

The price of silver is no where near C100.00

sounds like your mint is greedier then our US mint.

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Northerncoins's Avatar
Canada
2019 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2014  9:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Northerncoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
why would the Canadian Mint sell 1oz silver coins so high above spot?

The price of silver is no where near C100.00

sounds like your mint is greedier then our US mint.


Pretty much this.

Its going to bite them in the behind though...
Pillar of the Community
Canada
6768 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2014  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silveroid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
why would the Canadian Mint sell 1oz silver coins so high above spot?

The price of silver is no where near C100.00


I think, I might try to bring 2 reasons:

* these coins suppose to be pieces of art, where the item can not be priced by the cost of components

* the key is the face value:
the numis 1oz coins have denomination of $20-$25, so if you'll try to bring coin to some jewelry shop, you'll be paid by weight of content (1 oz), sot will be near $20 - fare enough....

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pocket change 50's Avatar
Canada
1751 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2014  12:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pocket change 50 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another great discussion everyone, I'm enjoying reading your responses. Another question comes to mind, does minting Nclt coins actually create money in the financial system. I'm thinking like when they mint the collector quarters ie "war of 1812", I think it's seniorage? It just occurred to me how is the money create in Nclt coins? Or is it a non issue, and no accounting necessary ? It's something to ponder.
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MoneyPenney's Avatar
Canada
2984 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2014  01:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MoneyPenney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the numis 1oz coins have denomination of $20-$25, so if you'll try to bring coin to some jewelry shop, you'll be paid by weight of content (1 oz), sot will be near $20 - fare enough


It makes no sense for someone who paid $100 for a 1oz coin to bring it to a jewellery store to get $25.

If a collector is interested in silver content only, he would be buying bullion, not NCLT.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
6768 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2014  01:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silveroid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But the 1812 quarters and the similar - they are commemorative circulation legal tender, and not NCLT.

But still, yes, they "produce money" by issuing NCLT. Since most of them have more or less PM content as the face value - it probably OK. The others might be going as a "bullion" (?)
From this point of view - "XforX" coins - exceptions.

I actually have no education in this, and just trying to guess.
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pocket change 50's Avatar
Canada
1751 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2014  02:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pocket change 50 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's an interesting question, I hope someone will come along with a good explanation. I guess there's many aspects to consider when minting collector coins. Plus I do wonder if X for X contributes money into the economy or how it's treated. Especially the coins that are returned and melted. I guess this also would apply to the melting of circulation coins, what replaces the value that was melted?
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CC-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
3690 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2014  10:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CC-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you're talking about broad economics definitions, NCLT are not generally included money supply however, circulation coins removed (i.e. melted) would reduce the overall money supply. Circulation coins however are usually included in the broadest definition of money supply.

That said, economics is often fuzzy and different economists define money supply differently. That discussion could be never ending.

In accounting terms, the Alloy Recovery Program produces revenue for the Mint (29.7M in 2013 and 35.6M in 2012). I haven't seen any reports of expenses associated with the program but one would assume that the margin is very good for the ARP even with the declining metal prices of late.

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United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2014  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I gotta say, the silver and gold Mammoth coins look pretty interesting and I like the design......
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kuh_85's Avatar
Canada
2366 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2014  1:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kuh_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Explanation of seigniorage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seigniorage

An example given is as follows:
The "50 State" series of quarters (25-cent coins) was launched in the U.S. in 1999. The U.S. government planned on a large number of people collecting each new quarter as it rolled out of the U.S. Mint, thus taking the pieces out of circulation.[6] Each set of quarters is worth $14.00 (a complete set includes quarters for all fifty states, the five U.S. territories, and the District of Columbia). Since it costs the Mint about five cents for each 25-cent piece it produces, the government made a profit whenever someone "bought" a coin.[7] The U.S. Treasury estimates that it has earned about US$6.3 billion in seigniorage from the quarters over the course of the entire program.

This is more applicable to circulation currency than the original question of NCLTs though. A similar argument is made for paper money http://rightclickhome.com/Numis/mic...ldTNotes.htm
Quote from the article:
But as every banker was aware, a paper issue in circulation for any length of time can be expected to see some 6% on average (higher the longer it circulates) never returned for redemption, the result of loss, destruction, misplacing &c. This represents a tidy sum on the profit column of the issuer so it may as well be Newfoundland.
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CoinCanuck94's Avatar
Canada
644 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2014  2:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCanuck94 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If anyone wants to purchase the gold or silver Woolly Mammoth coins separately, you can order them off of Canada Post with free shipping. I just purchased the silver one without the gold.
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