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Should I Sell My Collection?

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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2014  3:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That collection is more valuable than you think - it's the foundation of a retirement plan you're not going to get to help as much as you wish for the next few years, and these are the years you should be piling on to take advantage of compound interest. Do not liquidate under any circumstances.

I will never advise coins as an investment vehicle for less than lifetime terms. Yet, if you've selected your coins carefully for type and appeal at the grade, they're a good place to securely park money which will slowly but solidly appreciate. It's all you have for that job right now, and it's vital to your future.
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jdmern's Avatar
United States
1949 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2014  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Certainly a tough situation... When I was a freshman in college I sold off my entire coin collection, that I had been working on since I was 6 or 7... At the time, I needed the money, and you have to do what you have to do... Fast forward some years later and financial situation much different, I have been able to obtain some stuff I could not have imagined back then...

Here's the way I would look at it... Almost any coin is replaceable at any given time (with the exception of super rarities, obviously)... If there are other more pressing issues, all they are is an object which is holding money which could be better used for something else... When situations are different, the coins which were sold off can most likely be replaced- And more than likely, their price has not risen by more than 7.5% per year...

As ssuperddave mentioned, you don't need to be actively collecting to continue to enjoy numismatics, there is always the business angle (a small side coin business can certainly help out with that debt if one has the acumen), research or even metal detecting...
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2014  3:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have no experience with this, but I know people who do and I've already reached out to them. It certainly seems like refinancing at more favorable interest should be possible.
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Ben's Avatar
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2014  3:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jesus, half a million dollars for your education? And I thought my Student Loans were bad (just over £50,000 for 4 years...courtesy of the Government, 5.5% interest these days, payed back as 9% of your salary over £17k, written off by the government if not repaid after 30 odd years or theres about - that will be gone soon when it starts to be that no one has paid off the debt. Allowing for inflation and changing interest rates, ill need to earn at least £40k a year for the next 30 years to stand a chance at paying it off).

That 20k is not a large dent, you'd be best served having it to fall back on in times of need.
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Buddy's Avatar
United States
7075 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2014  4:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would advise against selling any of your collection despite having to go through tough times now. It won't fix things. It will barely make a dent.

Debt stinks but it is not a real emergency and if you are faced with an immediate need for cash, what will you have left to sell?

If you have a roof over your head and food on your table, you're not in any real trouble. Also, it sounds to me like your coin collection IS your only 'savings account' right now. I wouldn't be too quick to let go of that.

Good luck.

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Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
5394 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2014  4:10 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ $421,000 in debt I'd say that 20 K is not a large dent, but it certainly seems to be this posters time of need. Numismatics is a hobby....... for most, certainly not an investment. It is almost impossible to enjoy life with this kind of debt hanging over ones head. As I said earlier, in my opinion you have to deal with the debt problem. You can come back to coins in a much bigger way, later on in life when you are much more secure financially. I speak from experience as I have been there, done that, albeit not to the tune of half a million in debt. Today I have rarities and collectibles that would never have been possible 35 years ago! The OP is in serious difficulty that needs immediate attention. A hobby is NOT going to help that at this point in their life. Facing the debt problem head on is going to be very painful but must be dealt with. There is help out there for the OP and I for one sincerely wish him and his wife well.
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trdhrdr007's Avatar
United States
2335 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2014  4:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trdhrdr007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow. That's a heck of a debt load. At least you majored in something with the possibility of eventually paying off the debt. All too often I see people that get all A's in high school, do well in college placement tests....& then run up six figure debts getting a degree that has little to no job prospects.


Quote:
I am about $421,000 in debt from student loans, at close to 7.5% interest from the federal government. I was assured by the school administrators that this loan amount was sustainable and job opportunities would be abundant. In hindsight, it appears it was all just a sales pitch, and they were looking for a healthy profit. My wife and I are making $3,500 monthly payments, $3,200 of which are going toward interest, while the remaining $300 reduces the principal.


I'm a little confused about your numbers. Simple interest @ 7.5% on $421K should run about $31,575 annually. Thats about $2,631/month. Unless I'm missing something a $3,500 monthly payment should reduce principle by $868. Still a drop in the bucket compared to $421K but a lot better than $300. My financial calculator shows just under 19 year payoff on a $421,000 loan at 7.5% with $3500 monthly payments. Drop an extra $20k on it right now & you will pay off the loan in under 17 years. If you stick with the $421k & get a 5.5% interest rate with the same payment payoff is less than 15 years. Pay an extra $20k now AND get a 5.5% loan & payoff is 13.5 years.
Edited by trdhrdr007
12/22/2014 4:18 pm
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Wade's Avatar
Canada
2781 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2014  4:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
take your favorite coin, drill a hole in it, and wear it around your neck on a string. then SELL the rest & reduce the debt. every penny off the principal is interest you will save in the future 10x over.

according to your math (above poster may be more accurate):

@ $300 per payment coming off the principal then $20,000 is equal to 66 payments. multiply that times $3500 = $233,333

in other words your $20,000 collection is "worth" the next $233,000 that you earn (after taxes) and make as regular re-payments.

if you are serious about dealing with this debt then you need to apply the same "worth" to every dollar you spend. (ie $5,000 wedding = $58,000 in loan payments. even a $2 starbucks coffee is like making $23 in payments). every time you think about ordering in dinner or going to a movie reach for the coin around your neck, give it a tug, and remind yourself about the path you are on and how focused you need to stay if you ever hope to have a coin collection again.

you are in deep but you can dig out.
Edited by Wade
12/22/2014 4:42 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
937 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2014  4:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tryna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I am about $421,000 in debt from student loans, at close to 7.5% interest from the federal government. I was assured by the school administrators that this loan amount was sustainable and job opportunities would be abundant. In hindsight, it appears it was all just a sales pitch, and they were looking for a healthy profit. My wife and I are making $3,500 monthly payments, $3,200 of which are going toward interest, while the remaining $300 reduces the principal. At this rate, it will take 200 years to pay off.


This loan is not simple intererst it is compound intrest, and it is forward loaded. This means for about the first ten years of the loan you are paying about 50% of the interest. assuming this is a 30 year loan and you pay the minnimum each month your total payment will be HANG TIGHT...$1,260,000.

What you want to do now if you can afford it is make extra principal payments. Look at your agreement there should be a clause somewhere that says you can pay extra between a low and a high number, just say $100 to $1000 per payment.

Depending on the loan structure you may pay different amounts of principle each payment, so the last few years you may be paying $3200 in P and $300 in I. Take some time and look into what the rules are but you want to do something like double the amount of principle each payment.

If you can afford to do this you can shorten the loan life to 12 to 15 years saving yourself many thousands in interest. It would be far better to pay more P each month than make a 10 or 15 thousand lump payment now.

Your big worry is not the $421,000 you borrowed but the $839,000 in interest. That is what burries people.

Student loans are nasty things that can haunt you for your whole life. I work with two people who are fighting the student loan demon, one finally got hers paid and the other is nearing retirement and it is still hanging tightly to her bank account.

I wish you luck and good fortune.
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wireman09's Avatar
Canada
972 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2014  5:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wireman09 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My advice would be similar to matthewvincent. Keep 5-10% of the collection keeping your favorite and sentimental pieces and sell everything else. I'd work at paying off the debt.
New Member
United States
3 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2014  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dreamer7123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks everyone. Lately, I've been taking the 'bury my head in the sand' approach, and trying to live my life as normally as possible. The debt is always with you, chained around your neck always, but at least we're still alive and healthy, with loving family members surrounding us. There's food on the table and a roof over our heads. What more could you want? I just feel awful foolish for buying into this higher education thing. I should have become a mechanic like my childhood self wanted. I feel too guilty buying coins, so it's sort of soured the hobby anyway. Hopefully I win the lottery, you never know!
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2014  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Typical profile for a newly married fella.
You get the girl, but the nice car just has to go! (substitute 'coin collection' for 'car')

Just before I married, I consigned ALL of my collection for sale. About 90% of it sold, leaving me with a few dregs that had some significant value. I sold the remaining 10% of the collection in a job lot to a dealer, and bought a Roman gold aureus with the proceeds. I kept ALL of my reference books; they are the tools you need to re build your new collection, and continue a lifetime interest. That single coin formed the inspriation and the core of my new collection that was started about 40 years ago.

The money raised paid about 20% of the value of our first home, which came straight off the mortgage, and had the value of tripling the payment into the mortgage, because of the huge amount of interest saved.
It was the second best financial decision I ever made*.

Subsequently, I never lost any interest at all in my love for numismatics; the only difference for the next 20 years, was to never pay more than $20 or so for a single item, and always made sure that I was always getting good value for money with every purchase, or I would not be interested. Financially the wife, family and home mortgage were far more important.

*Just make sure that you kiss your wife sweetly every night before you go to sleep, and say that you love her. Do that for the rest of your life, even when you don't feel like doing so. Almost all hearts are softened when grandpa and grandma are seen gently hugging and kissing each other.
A financial advisor once told me that divorces are much more expensive than huge debts.

Now, the second collection is much larger and more valuable than the first, although the average value of the coins in it is much less.
Edited by sel_69l
12/22/2014 7:04 pm
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Bas S Warwick's Avatar
New Zealand
526 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2014  7:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bas S Warwick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow - $421,000 in debt - that a meaty one. My youngest son has a $130,000 student loan debt - which I thought was high. He doesn't seem to be able to make much impression on it even as a A320 first officer.

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Connor's Avatar
United States
2130 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2014  7:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Connor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hang in there Dreamer... I work in bankruptcy for a living and unfortunately student debts are non-dischargeable. You can run up 100k in credit card debt and it can magically go away but usually no chance at making a student loan go away for any reason. Doesn't make a lot of sense but it is what it is... Best of luck! I wouldn't sell the collection unless I was unable to put food on the table. Just my opinion.
Edited by Connor
12/22/2014 8:52 pm
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Joe2007's Avatar
United States
3843 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2014  7:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joe2007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure that I agree with the assertion that getting an education is a bad deal.

However one has to be extremely careful in choosing a career path and university these days. Colleges are becoming very profit oriented, with requirements that students not only pay tuition but are forced into college provided housing and meal plans which are much more expensive than what is offered off campus. College administrators see incoming students with a lot of available credit (through federal student loans) and are determined to get their 'fair' share of that 'free money'. Being a commuter student who lived nearby I was able to opt out of the required dorms and meal plan (which was nearly $10 per meal, highway robbery in my opinion).

Despite this I think that unskilled workers with only a high school diploma are in much worse shape in this global economy where so many jobs that we once well paid and safe have now either seen their wages slashed dramatically or have been shipped overseas. With continuing automation, low skill workers are going to be in a world of hurt. Professions like doctors and lawyers cannot be outsourced so they should fare comparatively well.

Just my Two Cents .............
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