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 Replies: 88 / Views: 8,529 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
Rigoletto-- You are just not getting it. You're not a free thinker. You are not even thinking of anyone except yourself and your own idea of what coin collecting should be. Of course in a perfect world everyone would be able to grade coins accurately, everyone would be able to access all of the information necessary to price and buy coins fairly. In a perfect world no one would care what slab a coin was in because no one would couterfeit, or artificially tone, or overgrade coins--or invent their own slabbing company to sell coins at a premium that aren't worth more than face value. In a perfect world everyone who starts coin collecting would stick with it because everyone was honest and fair and no one ever got ripped off. But that's not how it is. Good for you that you know how to grade coins. Not everyone does. Good for you that you don't care what slab your coin is in or even if it's in a slab at all. I don't care either. I hate slabbed coins and I only buy them if I'm planning to crack them out. Some people do care, and these rules are designed for their benefit. If this response makes you think that I am not as capable of free rational thought as you, then so be it. But I am not about to bow to your self-serving 'wisdom'. If you take a moment to get off your high horse, you'll see that these rules are designed to benefit the majority of the coin collecting world on the ground below you. All we have to figure out now is how best to make the new rules work in our favor. The possibility of finding cheap accurately graded PCI and SEGS slabs on ebay has my wheels turning. Unfortunately you think those wheels are rather small and out of round. I'm frankly sick of you insulting every one here and wish you would go and start your own site. I'm sure it will attract the six other old cranks who share your out-of-date and not very constructive opinions. Good luck with that. HABIB |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
This is a free country & I 100% support your right to your opinion. If I understand correctly, your opinion is that ebay cut off 2 grading services that you feel are legitimate. That seems like a valid opinion to me, whether or not I agree is immaterial. I think most people that have posted here are happy with the new policy because it is the first step that ebay has taken towards reducing the fraud that runs rampant on the site. I hope that you don't feel the need to stop participating here because of a difference of opinion about another site's policies. I don't have any idea as to whether or not you intended this, but my impression is that you feel like this new policy will somehow reduce the value of your key date coins. I can understand, and sympathize with, your concern. However, I think you need to take another look at your last post, specifically the following quotes. I consider myself a hobbyist, but I don't have a problem with "investors". You obviously feel that "investors" are somehow inferior, but by your own definition you are an investor & not a hobbyist. "My coins are mostly raw now, except for my key dates, and do you want to know why my key dates are slabbed? Not because I doubt my skills, but because everyone is so lazy that they don't want to learn about grading and authenticating on their own, they want to trust somebody else to save them from their mistakes." "I have them in slabs because if I removed them, the lazy people out there will pay much less than their value." "Collectors are turning into investors, and for you to say that it is proven that PCGS coins sell for a premium proves that you are an investor, whether you see it or not." |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
This ABONCOM listing was posted prior to the new rules taking effect and may serve to point out why the community needs protection of some sort. Who can tell me what the problem is here ... disregarding the SGS slab (that's a given)? http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-CC-SGS-GRA...AR_W0QQitemZ300150999059QQihZ020QQcategoryZ39465QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
Are you kidding? That's the long-lost 1878-CC missing mint mark variety! I've been looking for one of these since before I was born! Thanks for finding that listing! I sure hope ebay doesn't implement those rule changes so these coins will appear as graded and certified, I don't think I would buy a 1878-CC missing mint mark variety unless it was in an SGS slab! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
We have a BINGO! Congrats HABIB. Yet you will note that "trusting bidders" have only seen the 1878-CC certified and are bidding $193 on that. Don't tell me they bid that based on the picture. It's probably just a mix-up with the pictures, but it definitely shows that there are folks who just bid on the words!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
Contacted both the seller and the high bidder, (gave you the credit for finding it  ), and invited the bidder to check out the forum. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
ABONCOM ended the auction due to an error in the listing. HABIB you just saved some poor chap a bundle.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
Mutual back patting...  "Saving the hobby one collector at a time."  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
597 Posts |
All slabs bite in my opinion, buy the coin not the slab, you are your best judge, not some no name no face third party grading company.
Edumacate yourself and appreciate what it is to be a true collector, passionate and knowledgeable about your hobby. Don't let someone do this for you, and charge you for it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
597 Posts |
Half a bust is better than none says: quote:
Are you kidding?
That's the long-lost 1878-CC missing mint mark variety! I've been looking for one of these since before I was born!
Remember the old Wendy's commercials, Clara Peller screaming out "Where's the beef?" "Where's the Mintmark?" Or "Dude, where's my mintmark?" Edited by Scottishmoney
09/21/2007 12:52 pm
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Valued Member
United States
287 Posts |
trdhrdr007 You have hit the nail on the head. I don't like ebay and the ANA saying my coins are worth less. Although I don't think of myself as an investor, I see what you are saying using my own words. I was quite upset at the moment and lost myself in a tangent but the reason that I do buy the keys is a slab is that I am not able to see the details of a coin on a screen, so I buy in a slab knowing that most of the time it is authentic. When I receive the coin afterwards, I make sure that it is real. If it isn't I would definitely send it back or sue, if the seller is not cooperative. I have made mistakes in the past, but now that I am older I will not be taken advantage of. I do feel that PCI and SEGS are legitimate and unfortunately I am in a minority here. I don't feel that I am better than anybody else as Habib seems to think. I enjoy my time here and there are many here that I like to hear from opinion-wise. I agree with Habib that this is not a perfect world, and I do not think he or anybody else here is an idiot. I came here to learn from this forum. But I am sick of collectors saying "buy the coin, not the slab" because that is not what they mean. I like people to say what they mean, otherwise I can't believe them. As far as what he thinks about me only thinking of myself, he is completely off base. Anyone that knows me personally knows that I would give anything I had to help a friend or an innocent person. A free thinker is one who thinks for himself, not of himself. It is easy to throw labels around when you are in the majority, but it is harder to do so when you are alone, because you know that when all is said and done you will eventually be alone. To me, that is free thinking, to be in the world but not of it. And as far as my out of date opinions, a coin graded MS 65 in a first generation holder is almost always of much better quality than an MS 65 in today's holder. Which would you prefer to own? Grading in the 80s and earlier was much more conservative. So I would put my old crank ideals up to yours any day. I think slabs have hurt the hobby just as much as they have helped it. Were there unscrupulous dealers back then? Yup. Still are. So I see the need of slabs, but I still think that the hobby has been hijacked with things like "First Strikes", "Registry Sets" and people paying $1200 for a proof 70 Lincoln Cent from 2006 or whatever. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2254 Posts |
Rigoletto, first off, never write a post while you are simmering. It is way too easy to come across the wrong way without realizing it. Without voice inflection and hand movement etc, you can never trust it will be read the way you intended. quote:
The big lesson here though is that although everyone in coins says "buy the coin and not the slab", they do not mean it. Everyone here that agrees with ebay's new policy does not believe in "the coin over the slab". Your status as a collector is questionable.
This I take offense to on almost every level. I do agree with ebay's policy, and it has been a long time coming. For you to even remotely insinuate that anyone that agrees with this policy may not be a collector is unsat and a rather surprising comment coming from you as I've enjoyed your posts in the past. quote:
This new policy takes away my right to grade a raw coin.
I don't understand this one at all, but it doesn't matter and doesn't need explanation. I'm not here to argue, just to try to help you understand how bad things can come across. Now, without throwing anymore daggers, I will tell you my opinion. I think SEGS and PCI will have a chance at being released from their labels over time. I only hope that the deals I think you will find on their coins as a result of this new rule will bring you future wealth when they are regarded as "top tier". Definitely trust that I don't think you've burned any bridges here per say, but you must be careful with your wording. Hopefully you'll still hang and participate as I've enjoyed your posts, but like Bobby and most of the others, if you decide to pack up because your opinion is different than everyone else's here, you must stop and think if it's you or CCF that has a real issue. |
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Valued Member
United States
144 Posts |
Just to play devil's advocate: will this make it difficult for any other grading service to gain status and make it onto the ebay list? ebay based their choice of services from a survey that someone conducted of experts (forget who did it, but there is a link to it on ebay and the ANA sites). The interesting thing to me is, I would give the same opinion if you asked me what services to trust. But, I came to that opinion mostly from this site and a few other sources. I've never actually had a slab of any of the other grading services in my hand. So it seems it would be real hard for another service to rise above the automatic reaction against all but the big 4. For example, say one little company is the most accurate service ever, but they only have a tiny piece of the market. So all the experts never heard of them. I guess someone could do a more scientific study (buy a random bunch of slabbed coins from all services, break them out and send them around to various experts for grading, and then compare), but who would have the incentive to spend all that money? |
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Valued Member
United States
287 Posts |
Look guys... I cannot say another thing about this. It is obvious how I feel about the exclusion of these two services. I like their coins most of the time. If you don't then you don't. If you have never bought one of their coins. I suggest buying one just for the heck of it and study the difference. I cannot go on any more about this as it has brought me to the brink of giving up coins for a while and going back into autographs, (which by the way ebay is getting involved in as well with some sort of DNA testing, which is sending prices up.) So don't bother responding to me on this topic as I cannot read another post on this topic, but I will continue to read anything else but. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
597 Posts |
All this argument about TPG's and nobody wants to argue with me why plastic bites?  |
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Replies: 88 / Views: 8,529 |
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Posted 09/21/2007 11:47 am
