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 Replies: 70 / Views: 8,987 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2366 Posts |
Quote:
Once you start the downhill trend in a collectable, it's really hard to reverse the process True, but the two advantages that coin collectables have over beanie babies or hockey cards are a) they have a face value; and b) the silver and gold has an intrinsic value. So they have a couple of floors under their values that many other collectables don't. And (personal opinion) people are more emotionally prepared to accept that money has value. Neither of these prevent loss of faith or guarantee recovery of course but I like to think they improve the odds a bit  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2366 Posts |
p.s. Plus the low Canadian dollar has seriously boosted international demand recently resulting in short term boosts in sales and prices. Combined with my previous points maybe it is kick starting a longer term recovery? As I said, "cautiously optimistic". :-)
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3690 Posts |
So many threads pretty much talking about the same thing but I'll throw in my Two Cents. In 2011, the Mint came up with the 20 for 20. It is (paraphrasing their own words) a vehicle to attract new collectors. Read what they say in the annual reports for context. IMO they don't really care if they make a lot of money on these coins - though they probably do ok. They are looking for new customers and that has been very successful. Lured in by heavy advertising and a 'no risk' exchange $20 for $20 pitch, with free shipping and no tax, many people ordered from the Mint for the first time. The Mint then had the ability to market directly to these people and sell them the other 200-300 NCLT offering every year. No doubt that was effective for a couple of months or a year. But these new customers are not true coin collectors and after a few $100 purchases, they likely lost interest in the hobby. So RCM repeats the process. Issue more $20 for $20 coins with a variety of themes to draw in a variety of new customers, sell them some other stuff for awhile and then repeat. The flaw in this boom/bust cycle is that eventually, even the pool of people willing to enter the hobby for $20 (no risk $20 exchange) will dry up. In the meantime, the RCM creates record revenues and explodes it's CRM system with new 'clients'. They meet or exceed their performance objectives, provide a nice dividend to their one shareholder (the government of Canada), pay out healthly executive bonuses and offer well paying jobs with plenty of perks to their employees. Everyone is happy right? As for some suggesting that the mint is learning. Have a look at the newest 20 for 20. Compared to the last coin in the series, they have increased the mintage by 100k. Only the Bugs Bunny coin has a higher mintage. Clearly, they are trolling for even more new customers by issuing yet another dinosaur coin to appeal mostly to kids hoping to then sell other likely more profitable coins to them and their parents. In retail terms, it's a sort of loss leader even though I doubt they actually lose money on them. One last thought. We tend to forget that the vast majority of RCM customers are not well educated in the hobby. They do not post or even read forums such as this and they are not well versed in ebay or coins store websites. Many likely get the bulk of their coin knowledge from RCM marketing mailings and the shopping channel. There are maybe 20 truly active posters on this forum. Let's say there are a 1000 lurkers. Even that is a minuscule subset of RCM customers. Just surf over to the Mint's Facebook page and read the postings or check out the reviews on the mint.ca listings. If becomes clear very quickly that there is not a wealth of numismatics knowledge out there in the general population. IMO, the Mint counts on that to build their business. Edited by CC-Ottawa
01/11/2016 12:31 pm
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Rest in Peace
Canada
1360 Posts |
I just read your 'article' CC-Ottawa, and I think you've covered all the points that I would have made. One thing that always amused me on the mint.ca's 'reviews' was the use of the 'tick box' for helping with your review. How many people click off "Unique" on a product that has 20,000 or even 200,000 mintage... hardly unique. I just have to chuckle to myself when I see that. From Wikipedia: Unique / being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Yeah CC, you called it right. Similar to virtually all large entities, performance is driven and measured on a annual basis and opportunities are focused on short term growth. This made me chuckle as well, not a reviewers comment, it's RCM's description. A good example of your point: The $20 for $20 Tyrannosaurus Rex Rare—only 300,000 coins can ever be struck - See more at: http://www.mint.ca/store/coins/20-f....VpPsfq9fOrU |
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New Member
19 Posts |
CC, I have to say the $20 for $20 program did get me back into the hobby although the high prices and huge variety of other NCLT did turn me off of that aspect of the hobby. Since then I have turned to coin roll hunting and building my collection of circulation coinage. You could say the mint's program attracted me back to collecting although probably not in the way they intended.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Cadre I hope there's many others like you! While RCM may focus on piquing the interest of the younger generation, buying from them a few affordable priced coins each year, I can see why many soon lose interest. I know I would. One can take them out from time to time from wherever they're safely stored and look at them once in awhile, but other than the activity of visual observation, the interaction level is extremely low particularly if a collection consists of a couple dozen NCLT or less. As you've discovered, circulation coin offers another component - the search! It also opens the door to anomalies, variances and varieties, learning about art of coin grading and preservation, all blended with an educational component, owning a piece of Canadian history. Both types of collecting are different, yet ideally compliment each other particularly because RCM tends to reproduce many of the original circulated coins. Enjoy! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
I've always had a love-hate relationship with NCLTs.
Today, thanks to many supporters this segment has rightfully become a topic of its own.
While promoting and defending their place in the various coin forums I was always worried about the insane amount of coins that are released each year.
Back in 2001 I wrote a letter to the CCN Editor which was eventually published. This article became a topic of discussion during one of Danielle Wetherup's last conferences. I was criticizing the proliferation of NCLTs.
Mrs. Wetherup respectfully responded to me by name - and basically said that the Mint was simply adapting to new market demands.
This was 15 years ago!
I believe that my arguments are still very much applicable today, and I'm guessing that the Mint's response are also equally applicable.
In retrospect, I have to admit that Mrs. Wetherup made the correct decision from a business standpoint. As a matter of fact I did continue to collect NCLTs. Not only that, but my purchases accelerated. The Mint won the argument.
In my case, the NCLT phenomenon peaked in 2005-2006 then after that it became impossible to keep up (from a financial standpoint). The Mint transition from cassette tape to classic cases circa 2007 marks a definitive drop in my purchases. Then... the Crystals arrived.
For me this was a time of great confusion. I was definitely attracted to all these weird offerings. But it became apparent that the Mint would stop at nothing. It was time to get a grip on my addiction. Therapy followed.
My last major NCLT order was in 2012, then finally the 2013 Proof set. I did embark on the $20 for $20 frenzy and might continue the $200 for $200.
Other than that I'm done with NCLTs. It took me 4 years to sell almost all of my NCLTs (some with decent profit) and I feel I got lucky in a sense because most of my coins sold reasonably well and at a fair price. Then again I was never hoarding or flipping to make an immediate profit (except maybe a few times in recent years). I just waited for the right offer.
For a variety of reasons I do think that it will be harder for today's buyers to offload their collection. But who knows?
My love-hate relationship shall continue.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
Dont get me started on the 2014 Bison coins. Talk about a TOTAL BUST. First Silvertowne was liquidating their "exclusive" series,, oh my how special.... THEN after they slashed prices, if you go on ebay, you can find dealers selling for even LESS than Silvertowne! The lesson here is that for the most part, "exclusive" coins by any dealer, when its done in conjunction with a mint is a warning sign to stay the heck away. The many other coins suffer this same fate. Look at the Deer coins or whatever they were, from Silvertowne. But I am not just picking on Silvertowne. ANY dealer that does a deal with a mint, and the run is high, such as 10,000 coins, is a sure disaster in this market. |
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New Member
United States
1 Posts |
Regarding the Bison and the Deer, I've acquired both of those sets. All eight coins, all in NGC/PCGS PF69 holders, and I'm in the set for about 24 USD a coin. Likely too much (though way, way less than issue price), but whatever, silver that goes into my collection never seems to come out.
Same thing seems to have happened with the Grizzly series of 2015. Was that also an exclusive to someone?
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Almost all NCLT looses value in the aftermarket, relative the the original issue sale price.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1751 Posts |
Edited by pocket change 50
01/13/2016 01:45 am
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New Member
Canada
31 Posts |
@ Pocketchange 50- Thanks for welcoming me in. I may have recently joined, but I've been reading posts for a little while (2011).
People pay thousands of dollars for trips/ souvenirs and their memories fade, but the coins are always there and if I can get 50% in the end- great! (Hopefully, I won't have to sell them off.)
I love eating out, but the sensation is short-lived. My exercise gear is expensive, but it also wears out-lol.
My philosophy is to buy a coin that I truly like/enjoy (I smile each time I see the coin). I don't have time to flip.
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New Member
Canada
31 Posts |
@ John 100, my dealer-friend previously told me, he would only give me melt prices for NCLT (we were discussing the hobby- I wasn't selling anything). He also said he wouldn't give extra premiums for the privy maples (wolf, etc.).
I bought a few 2015 maple for less than market price and he said if I want to invest- "just buy silver bars"
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Except for 3 or 4 issues a year, you might get a little better than bullion from a dealer.
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Replies: 70 / Views: 8,987 |
First Page
Posted 01/11/2016 11:42 am
