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1960-S Canadian PL Vs Business Strikes

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Valued Member

Canada
127 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2016  12:32 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add thrustie to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hey all,

I know this is a rather newbie question, but I have been having a hard time differntiating between the 1960s proof like coins and business strikes. I 'know' the terminolgy from the charlton between the two; however, half the 1960s silver dollars I see on ebay in graded holders in MS65 I swear look like PL strikes to me. Either they have a mirror field straight out or appear to be hazed(fogged) over. Can anyone perhaps help me out so I can get this straight once and for all :)

Thanks everyone.
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SilverDon's Avatar
Canada
2360 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2016  05:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Business strikes mostly were dropped into bags and show bag marks. Look in the legends especially for these. PL strike were supposedly handled with more care. There is less mirror finish on a business strike, the planchets for PL strikes were polished before striking. The rims of a PL strike are more angular and the reeding of a PL strike goes all the way to the edge of the coin. Look for square rims on a PL, more rounded on a business strike.
Valued Member
Canada
127 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2016  11:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thrustie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That actually helps quite a bit SilverDon. I'm just looking at a few silver dollars I have as we speak and seperating them by what I feel is proof like vs business strike. I will post some pictures once I am done to see how I did :) Thanks a bunch.
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SilverDon's Avatar
Canada
2360 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2016  11:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also the PL strikes should have frosted legends and devices/portraits.
This frosting should pop out in contrast to the mirror like fields.
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Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2518 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2016  3:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SilverDon got it. PL coins have very shiny mirror finishes and the rims are more square. But PL strikes don't always have frosted devices, in fact most of them don't. Only the first strikes have them. Here's an article that might help: http://www.edmontoncoinclub.com/cameo.htm

I'll take out a couple of PL coins I have and take photos of them. My internet is a bit uncooperative today so I'll see if I can get to upload them.
Valued Member
Canada
127 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2016  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thrustie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks so much guys. I have been mauling over a few silver dollars I have laying around looking at similarities/differences. Some seem very obvious after looking over all the things you pointed out, while others seem less obvious, especially ones that have toned some.
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Canada
2845 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2016  7:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SlurExe97, that's a very informative link. I think many people may not realize there can be a vast difference in the degree of cameo of a single PL coin and also for that same reason not all original PL sets are equal in value.

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Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2518 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2016  8:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are pics. They're not the best but I hope it gets the point across. The PL has a shinier, mirror-like finish to them. Business strikes don't have those mirrors. You'll know when you see a PL from the mirrors. Shine a light on it, it's going to reflect like polished metal (but don't polish your coins).

This is a cameo PL (unfortunately I only have impaired ones and the field is no longer perfect, but notice how the portrait doesn't mirror)
1960-S-Canadian-PL-Vs-Business-Strikes

PL without cameo (most PLs you see will be like this, shiny all over)
1960-S-Canadian-PL-Vs-Business-Strikes

Cameo business strike (they're not common, but a lot of 1975 nickel dollars like this one has a light cameo if you look out for them)
1960-S-Canadian-PL-Vs-Business-Strikes

Business strike no cameo (again, the vast, vast, vast majority)
1960-S-Canadian-PL-Vs-Business-Strikes

And a comparison of the sides. They are the same thickness, but the PL has a more squared off rim and the reeding reaches the corners, making it look thicker than if the reeding doesn't reach there.

1960-S-Canadian-PL-Vs-Business-Strikes

You're welcome wildflower. I found the page through an old topic this forum. It doesn't seem to be linked to much even though I think it's a good page.
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Dennman's Avatar
Canada
496 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2016  8:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dennman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SlurExe97,on the first PL you show,the rim above the Queens head appears to be not filled out .
I thought PL coins were suppose to be picked for their best over all appearance.
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SilverDon's Avatar
Canada
2360 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2016  9:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great information SlurExe97. I have to say that I see many silver PL
coins from the 1960's in the junk bins even at my LCS that are
frosted, not ultra heavy cameos or anything but certainly with
much contrast from the mirrored fields. Nickel dollars from the
70's may be different. I agree that not all PLs are frosted.
Love that picture side on showing the reeding.

Here is a 1963 PL 50 Cent piece I got out of the junk bin, nice
and frosty devices and legends with mirror fields.

1960-S-Canadian-PL-Vs-Business-Strikes

1960-S-Canadian-PL-Vs-Business-Strikes

The OP referred to PL and MS silver dollars from the
1960's, I have 2 1963 dollars one PL and another a
business strike (Brilliant Uncirculated, maybe MS-62).
The fields of the PL are very shiny as compared to the
slightly hazed BU bag marked coin.

1963 Dollar Proof Like
1960-S-Canadian-PL-Vs-Business-Strikes

1960-S-Canadian-PL-Vs-Business-Strikes

1963 Dollar Business Strike
1960-S-Canadian-PL-Vs-Business-Strikes

1960-S-Canadian-PL-Vs-Business-Strikes
Edited by SilverDon
01/23/2016 9:25 pm
Valued Member
Canada
127 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2016  9:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thrustie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you very much for the pictures slur, that clears things up even more for me. I have quite a few different examples of PL dollars it seems. From no cameo, to many heavy cameo. I have a couple 1963 dollars that have complete mirror like fields that do cartwheels.
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Canada
2845 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2016  9:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, your comparison photograph of the PL square edges, the reeding reaching a sharper corner is extremely helpful!

Do you know, this defining feature of PL carries though to what year?
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chequer's Avatar
Canada
4227 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2016  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great examples being shown here and I think Garfield adds a definite coolness to the thread (he shows the reflective quality of PL vs business strike very well!)
Valued Member
Canada
127 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2016  9:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thrustie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very Nice Don and thank you. Those 2 1963s are even starting to get close to that line where I was referring to. I'll see if I can get some decent pictures of a couple that are PL vs a higher MS with less bag marks that appear very similar.
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aghawk's Avatar
Canada
343 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2016  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aghawk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the info posted here - I have a whole set of post 67 50 cent pieces and I am trying to sort as to business strike and proof like. In some cases it seems not too obvious however the tip about the sides of the coins is most helpful.
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Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2518 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2016  10:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dennman, that PL of mine is impaired, and I don't know if the flat bit is originally there or it got damaged somewhere along the way.

Excellent pics SilverDon, I knew you would have something to add. I can't afford silver dollars now so I'm showing what I have - nickel dollars from different years. I don't think PL/business strike quality has changed in the 70s.

wilddflower, the edge can be a quick way for me to tell PL or business strike. I don't know until what year PL is but proof coins start at 1981 (I think?). Maybe ask SPP.
Edited by Altaira
01/23/2016 10:19 pm
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