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Definitive Test For Black Beauty Nickels

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Valued Member
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 Posted 04/16/2018  9:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Surf-city-NC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I saw this one in a tellers box at the bank yesterday, and traded for a nickel I had in my pocket. I'm not sure if it's improperly annealed or if it was dug.
Definitive-Test-For-Black-Beauty-Nickels
Definitive-Test-For-Black-Beauty-Nickels
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Valued Member
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 Posted 04/16/2018  10:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Surf-city-NC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I did a google search for graded examples and found an improperly annealed dollar, has anyone else seen one of these before?

https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/273040874956
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spru's Avatar
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 Posted 04/16/2018  10:29 pm  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your nickel looks pretty promising. By the angled pic and the obverse pic, I would say definitely. The reverse pic is different in that I see essentially no luster.

Is there any silver color poking through on any of the high points?

As to the dollar, I haven't seen that before, but I don't collect SACs. Thanks for sharing it.
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spru's Avatar
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 Posted 04/16/2018  10:57 pm  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's interesting that this topic picked back up today. Today I received my new purchase of Nagengast's The Jefferson nickel Analyst, 2nd Edition (2002). There are a couple of paragraphs devoted to "dark" nickels. Instead of typing it all, I took some pics!

Definitive-Test-For-Black-Beauty-Nickels
Definitive-Test-For-Black-Beauty-Nickels
Definitive-Test-For-Black-Beauty-Nickels

Someone who has the First Edition will know if anything was edited in this section after 23 years.


Interesting observations/questions @fortcollins. I can definitely test magnetic properties. I know of a member who could XRF test them. I may have to see if he is up to it and if he thinks it may lend any meaningful results.
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 Posted 04/16/2018  10:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Remember, to this date there has NEVER been a recorded case of a Denver mint Black Beauty, or to my recollection an improperly annealed example. It is most likely tempered by heat in a beaker on a Bunsen burner in Johnnie's high school classroom
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 Posted 04/30/2018  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Saw this on the bay, took a chance because the seller pix looked promising...wasn"t disappointed! Now THIS is what I'm talkin' 'bout!!


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 Posted 04/30/2018  5:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Saw this on the bay, took a chance because the seller pix looked promising...wasn"t disappointed! Now THIS is what I'm talkin' 'bout!!
Very nice!
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OldMoney's Avatar
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 Posted 04/30/2018  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add OldMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I prefer the cobalt blue beauties found in pre-1965 proof sets.
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 Posted 04/30/2018  7:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Remember, to this date there has NEVER been a recorded case of a Denver mint Black Beauty, or to my recollection an improperly annealed example.

That should be proof that genuine Black Beauties do indeed exist .
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spru's Avatar
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 Posted 05/01/2018  01:36 am  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Now THIS is what I'm talkin' 'bout!!


That is really nice and looks like a winner to me!

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 Posted 05/01/2018  08:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I prefer the cobalt blue beauties found in pre-1965 proof sets.
No shame there!
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 Posted 05/14/2018  10:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dadsoncoinhobby to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looking to the experts on this one. I pulled both of these 59P's from the same box over the weekend (the one on the right is the candidate for BB status). There is luster on the dark one, so fingers crossed that I have a black beauty :)


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 Posted 05/14/2018  10:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin on the right looks very promising for a genuine Black Beauty .
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 Posted 05/14/2018  12:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I got a 2002 quarter taken from a bank roll of 2002 quarters that is dark and has original luster.
I did not know what it was. I only took a pic of it next to another quarter when I learned of black beauties on this forum
http://goccf.com/t/143811
Definitive-Test-For-Black-Beauty-Nickels
Definitive-Test-For-Black-Beauty-Nickels
Definitive-Test-For-Black-Beauty-Nickels
Definitive-Test-For-Black-Beauty-Nickels

In the second set of pics my bad lighting does not show the luster.



Quote:
That should be proof that genuine Black Beauties do indeed exist .

Being a former science teacher, I am a stickler for the word "proof" b/c there is too much pseudo science nowadays accepted as fact b/c this word is overused.

The slabbed one shows only that the graders handling the coin (who likely see more in hand than most of us ever will) were convinced the nickel had the characteristics of what the hobby has, for years, accepted as THEORETICALLY being an improper annealing error.

From what I have read, we do not know, but assume from situations like my quarter find, that black beauties are legitimate.

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 Posted 05/14/2018  2:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
dadsoncoinhobby, Yep, Indeed it is, all the right looks, bet if you look at the cartwheel it is even a bit purplish/blue too!

Earle, interesting quarter indeed. A quick question tho, were all the quarters same date/state/mintmark or mixed date? Dark coloring, especially on a clad coin is apples to oranges in coin composition. The nickel is a solid alloy, has been since the Liberty V nickel series. The cladding is a similar but much thinner material. The effects a clad coin take on therefore when exposed to like elemental tortures are wholly different and only"surface deep" so to speak!. Source can be important here.

If I had the money and access to the proper analyzation equipment, I would myself do a science project. This would entail taking darkened coins, mostly nickels and determining how deep the darkness permeates the metal. My Hypothesis is(for all you "un-nerds" or mon-wonks), that the official "Black Beauty" as we have been portraying here is indeed a composition anomaly, and not just an annealing(tempering) error. This would have to be proven using known BB's and other "darkened" nickels (Liberty, Buffalo and Jeffersons), and basically destroying them in the name of science! Cutting in half, to determine if the color is throughout or partial. Then use test nickels that have been subjected to known elemental and physical factors(heat, chemicals). My thought is a true BB will be solid throughout, meaning actual composition, with further analytical elemental testing to determine the variances of trace elements. A theory has been presented that the overall "Bluish-purple" hue has to do with more cobalt, annealed into the mix. Prove this conundrum once and for all.

Edited by Crazyb0
05/14/2018 2:54 pm
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