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 Replies: 67 / Views: 7,633 |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12477 Posts |
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Almost all circulated coins have been cleaned at some point. 160 year old silver with no dirt or finger prints? Puh-lease. It's how they look now that matters to me. Yes. This.  Quote:
There's a big difference in cleaning and conserving in my option. If the action causes detectable surface damage or defacement then for my money I'd rather own a lower grade original or more natural specimen. If done properly, could you tell the difference between a "cleaning" and the results of a TPG's "conservation"? When they use that term, it's a euphemism. How detectable do you mean? Naked eye or microscope? Quote:
I personally hate coins that have altered surfaces in any way. The exception are ancients. I think you'll have a long and expensive road ahead. It is unreasonable to expect that you can find every coin as if they were in a time capsule. That certified straight-grade 100 year old AU slabbed coin was held and carried by someone and they might have used a cloth to wipe it off and actually touched the face with their fingers! To me, a coin with history is more interesting than a perfect example that has no personal history (i.e. sitting in a bank vault for decades until they are "found" and released in special slabs). That's why (hat-tip ExoGuy) when deciding to try and sell my world coins, this is one I am definitely keeping:   I realize this can be a contentious issue and I'm not trying ruffle any feathers.  In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Edited by spru
07/25/2017 02:44 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4416 Posts |
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I personally hate coins that have altered surfaces in any way. I personally love coins that have altered surfaces .... like my avatar. Hold the beans ....  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1450 Posts |
I have gotten to the point where I buy just TPG holders since I want some sort of certification they have not been cleaned or have details. I remember taking some more common Morgan CC coins to a dealer and he scoffed at them saying they had all been cleaned. I bought them raw since they were place holders but they were not that bad. I did not like the guys attitude anyway, so I walked out and never went back. I have bought some certified and slabbed coins upon close inspection were just bagged to death and no where on the certification did they mention any details. An AU50 would have looked better. This was a 1885CC Morgan in MS62 which I bought online. If you buy coins you will get messed up every so often. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
There are cleaned coins in straight graded TPG holders, including coins that are noticeably cleaned. |
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Valued Member
United States
265 Posts |
If I am buying "junk" Barber or Mercury dimes that are G to G+ condition for under $2.00 a piece, I don't really care. If I'm buying something like a seated liberty half for over $50 then I would care. |
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Pillar of the Community
Norway
1358 Posts |
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Shouldn't how the coin looks matter more than whether it was cleaned in the past? I'm having a few ideas about this. First of all, modern cleaning is a no-no. We have a company in Norway called 'Samlerhuset' (Dutch registered for tax evasion reasons) which is the largest in Norway. Just like their tax evasion, they have no morals with coins either. They're the biggest in Norway because they're owned by the same company that owns the only mint we still have (it's privatized nowadays). They have a huge turnover in coins and just simply clean all the silver that comes in, in a harsh, filthy way. They simply destroy all luster, make all coins look dead and decayed and, worst of all, they sell them at highly inflated prices to numismatically uninformed people as a 'great investment for the future'. It's actually a fraud. This kind of cleaning is a big no-no and coins from Samlerhuset (meaning 'the collector's house') are a no-no in my collection. I wish them ill. They completely destroy the Norwegian numismatic market, willingly, for short terms profit from easy victims. Now, I do know that, at least in The Netherlands (and I do collect Netherlands), cleaning and 'conserving' coins by spraying a chemical substance on them, used to be common practice for decades. As such, a lot of the older Dutch coins have been cleaned or conserved in the past, often with the best intentions. The results vary of course, but a lot of them still have a lot of appeal. In this case, I don't mind it very much, as this is just part of numismatic history. If coin collecting is collecting history, then collecting numismatic history is a meta-experience. To me it's a concrete example of how the general opinion changes due to new insights... "And that's all I have to say about that".  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4211 Posts |
Back when I first started buying coins...dealers commonly cleaned coins.
So, they don't bother me much. Unless it's really harshly cleaned.
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Valued Member
United States
422 Posts |
Depends on the coin and where in my collection it's going to be.
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Valued Member
Canada
51 Posts |
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Lately I've been buying nice grade circulated early Wheaties with dirt or crud problems . First they get an Acetone bath ,maybe a little light tooth pick action . Then they get a good application of Verdi-Care with soft cloth or Q-tip .The end results for most of the coins are phenomenal . This is NOT considered coin cleaning . I don't think I have enough posts to quote other posts properly so... @T-BOP: As a beginner (who hopes to buy coins that retain their value) I really need to understand this. Do you think that it's not considered cleaning by the TPGs? Quote:There are cleaned coins in straight graded TPG holders, including coins that are noticeably cleaned. @ Conder101 Do you think that a TPG would change the grade if someone were to point out a coin that's slabbed but clearly cleaned? In other words, a coin that got slabbed years before this distaste for any sort of cleaning really took hold? Edited by Tradernik
07/25/2017 9:28 pm
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New Member
United States
32 Posts |
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Almost all circulated coins have been cleaned at some point. 160 year old silver with no dirt or finger prints? Puh-lease. It's how they look now that matters to me. The St. Francis Hotel in San Francisco has an employee wash and clean ALL their change in a cleaning machine and have done so since since 1938. Found an article from 2010 but they probably still do it. |
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New Member
United States
2 Posts |
Depends on the coin... if it's for my own collection and I don't plan on selling it, I don't mind a cleaned one as long as it wasn't too damaged in the process and it is a filler.... I have numerous gold St Gaudens and other high end coins that I hope to one day pass on to my kids, I wouldn't want these coins in a cleaned state unless I was able to obtain them below spot price.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1346 Posts |
When offered as BU, then yes.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1261 Posts |
Quote:I have gotten to the point where I buy just TPG holders since I want some sort of certification they have not been cleaned or have details. The TPGs will not provide you with that certification or comfort that they haven't been cleaned or have details. I have been seeing more and more coins in TPG holders that have obvious issues like these and there are many threads on this issue. Original coins are out there. It takes some experience and knowledge to know what to look for. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:Do you think that a TPG would change the grade if someone were to point out a coin that's slabbed but clearly cleaned? In other words, a coin that got slabbed years before this distaste for any sort of cleaning really took hold? The distaste for any sort of cleaning took hold well before the slabbing began, and in the very early slabs you don't find the cleaned coins. It becomes more prevalent in the later slabs and especially in the early coins. |
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Valued Member
Canada
51 Posts |
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The distaste for any sort of cleaning took hold well before the slabbing began, and in the very early slabs you don't find the cleaned coins. It becomes more prevalent in the later slabs and especially in the early coins. @Conder101 Okay thanks. That fits more cleanly with the impression I've developed (total noob so no idea of this is right) that grading standards have become looser as time goes on. I have to say that I've seen nice looking coins in slabs that say 'Details - Cleaned' on them but they look pretty nice to me. I'm seriously wondering if sometime in the future, a very old rare coin that was obtained relatively cheaply because of 'cleaning' issues will make a comeback because people will realize that the coin is still an ancient artifact. |
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Posted 07/25/2017 02:43 am
