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1892 BN Indian Head Cent (Grade For Fun, Educational)

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jerimy's Avatar
United States
21 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2018  5:17 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jerimy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello hello,
This one I am posting more for "fun" and also to hear some feedback from the community about grading coins in general. I figure this post could serve future community members and googlers as well.

I am new to the hobby and have invested many hours lately into books, google searches and youtube videos to learn about coin grading specifically. However, there is only so much I can learn from this before I need more "direct" feedback.
So I will describe how I look at a coin, using this 1892 Indian Head cent as my example.

First I look at the coin and get a quick baseline to start with. This one obviously looks brown, and good detail without obvious damage other than a couple black marks which could be any number of things, so I'll start it off as a BN and a MS63-64 as our highest potential, then work down from there (or sometimes up).
(Lincoln is here for reference of luster)
1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational
1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational

Now a quick look at the back.. and darn. a few more spots. Ok so we're looking at low 60s at best now unless those spots are just a darker tone or something natural (please I hope its not environmental damage or carbon build up).
1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational


Now I'll turn the coin through the light to examine detail, wear and "damage" of the coin to see if it's even MS at all, or if I can find obvious signs of wear to drop it down to AU. First the obverse. I look at the lower hair & diamonds first, to see if they are flattened (worn) or still have detail. Also the tips of the feathers, cheek, hair above ear and any other high points first. Looks pretty good actually. Don't like the few black spots but she's got a pretty face at least. A couple marks on her cheek but no big dings or scratches. Doesn't look like my other pennies that were cleaned/polished. Wear could be a weak strike and/or from sliding in/out of holders.. unsure. ok not bad on the obverse. We'll look at the black spots in a minute.

1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational 1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational 1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational 1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational 1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational 1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational


Now I'll do the same with the reverse of the coin. A couple black spots, most noticeable on the E in ONE and along the edge at about 2 o'clock. The other black spot on the E in CENT doesn't appear nearly as noticeable now.
1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational 1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational 1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational


And a quick peek at the dirty edge tells me this coin has been handled, probably by collectors. A clean edge would raise suspicions of cleaning.
1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational


Now through the loupe on the reverse I see a few spots, but overall there isn't much wear. A few dings on the rim, unsure about the black spot on the E in ONE. Shield looks good albeit dirty.
1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational 1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational 1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational 1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational


Now through the loupe on the obverse.. good detail, not much wear, could be a weak strike and/or wear from sliding in/out of holders by collectors throughout the years.

1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational 1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational 1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational


And finally those darn ugly spots.. Unsure what they are, looks just like natural toning/reactions going on.

1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational
1892-BN-Indian-Head-Cent-Grade-For-Fun,-Educational


So my best guess is:
(not likely) AU details environmental damage
(somewhat likely) AU58-MS62 depending on black marks
(Probable) MS63
(Hopeful) MS64 depending on black marks


phew.
New Member
Australia
36 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2018  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gutshot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That was a great post, photos and very informative.
Thank you.
Cheers Gutshot.
Rest in Peace
moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2018  5:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well done.

One of the most reliable indications of AU versus BU is the color change that occurs in the fields from circulation. In your example the color differentiation between the open fields on the obverse and the design elements does indicate circulation. The one photo close up of the feather tips confirms that rub.

AU-58.

I'm thinking it was cleaned. It has that odd color achieved from a dip which makes it nearly impossible for the copper to return to correct coloration.

The black spots can occasionally be removed by a pure Acetone soak. It depends on what caused the spots.

You are doing extremely well in establishing a base line from which to work.
Rest in Peace
T-BOP's Avatar
United States
18456 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2018  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice indebt analysis on your IHC . Not a 64BN . I'll say 63BN ,but I'm concerned about the feather tips may have rub .
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numismatic student's Avatar
United States
11896 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2018  12:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
looks unc 63 to me. some of your pics look natural bronze brown, but others, or most, make it look like it has the yellowish, brassy copper nickel color.

In any event, your skill in photographing IHC details is outstanding. I think you can make some extra coin $ on the side with this skill.
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THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
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SilverDollar2017's Avatar
United States
8715 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2018  10:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks MS-63BN to me.
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panzaldi's Avatar
United States
18680 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2018  10:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm also at MS63BN. what appears to be a little to me looks like strike as there is nothing else on this coin that says circulated. the spots do appear to be carbon. you can try acetone. no harm just make sure you are using pure acetone not nail polish remover acetone
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2018  11:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
63BN, agree.
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
United States
36782 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2018  11:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm with Mox on this one. AU-58 with a past cleaning.
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Mike1487's Avatar
United States
709 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2018  12:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mike1487 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cleaned, starting from the 4th picture it should not be that color. Dull and devoid of luster.
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