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Really Old Coin From 1721, Worth Anything?

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Gallienus's Avatar
United States
167 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2018  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gallienus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not really a thaler collector but I have a few maybe 6-8, starting from 1486 as I think they're neat coins. Most of them are Polish thalers tho.

The surfaces don't look counterfeit to me. In fact the coin appears to have hairlines obv as if someone tried to clean it in the past. Also the lettering is very sharp for a counterfeit. Finally I can understand the concern if this is a Chinese Empire dollar i.e. 7 mace 4.4 candareens, or a USA 1776 Continental, but who would go through the trouble to make a high quality counterfeit of a Swedish Riksdaler?
Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2018  12:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We may or may not have another of this similar scenario on the Identification forum with the Japanese Yen.
And to answer who would make fakes of this type, you can visit one of the makers pages in China and search for copy coins of your interest.
Edited by Albert
10/13/2018 12:57 pm
Valued Member
paulCT's Avatar
186 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2018  1:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paulCT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What an interesting turn of events!My opinion was strictly based on an original piece so I haven't spent any second trying to find 'dodgy' elements on this particular coin.Without the exact weight,diammeter and eventually having it in my hand I wouldn't hurry into claiming it's fake.If proved to be a fake ,then it's probably a well made one and above many others available these days,for example the transylvanian thaler mentioned by me in a recent post,that was sold in the end with around 550£ if I'm not wrong.
Gallienus I think faking Swedish Riksdalers would be very likely as the rare ones are quite pricey!Nevertheless I find it unlikely to find high quality fake thalers available on the asian market,at least from my observation.
Edited by paulCT
10/13/2018 3:33 pm
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United States
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 Posted 10/13/2018  3:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I avoided pointing out specific flaws so that the makers could not use that info to make improved copies. I don't regard this as a high quality fake thaler because it does contain expected errors, but I do agree it is made better than many, so non-critical eye might accept it.
Valued Member
Canada
242 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2018  7:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Loruca to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would personally tend for all the coins posted by this individual to be genuine.
This is the least clear, but it still doesn't seem to show strong enough variations from the type to declare fake without further images, weight, diameter and edge images.
I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories.
Fakes are good, images on the internet are hard to read, this coin looks good.
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Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2018  8:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...but who would go through the trouble to make a high quality counterfeit of a Swedish Riksdaler?

The "catalog" of Chinese/Russian modern numismatic forgeries has become incredibly extensive, and the techniques by which they're produced quite sophisticated and deceptive. Even if this coin is of the correct weight and specific gravity (and thus, by implication, fineness) I'd want an analysis via xray fluorescence (XRF) before I'd even be thinking of taking the next step of submitting it for certification.

Colligo ergo sum
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7939 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2018  10:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm not really a thaler collector but I have a few maybe 6-8, starting from 1486 as I think they're neat coins. Most of them are Polish thalers tho.


Well,if any of them are real, I envy your collection. Especially the 1486. That plus a few Polish thalers puts you into several tens of thousands for a handful of coins. Well done!

As for who would counterfeit a Swedish rijksdaler? The same who would counterfeit a Polish thaler.
Edited by tdziemia
10/13/2018 10:48 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts
 Posted 10/14/2018  01:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Clearly the poster is playing some silly games with some of the things he asks. Dad, grandpa, the attic, bought at auction (!), metal detected... There was this:

http://goccf.com/t/284347

So, he thinks his piece which is like that is "copper or some other metal?". Yet, he was able to search out a 20 Kroner image, which would clearly state that it is/should be gold.

I get the feeling he's just being cute as he thinks playing dumb will make people more likely to help him out with answers - as opposed to "hey, I bought this, how much is it worth/what can I flip it for, thanks"
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 Posted 10/14/2018  01:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree. Once more people catch on it's likely to find a continuation of similar coins and posts with some changes in dialog under a new member name. If moderators can verify the origins of these members, then when new names appear from those same or similar origins, maybe posts can be weeded out. Leaving this forum to honest people with legitimate coins.
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yellow88's Avatar
United States
581 Posts
 Posted 10/14/2018  01:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not genuine.
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kaikun2001's Avatar
Sweden
83 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2018  05:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kaikun2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jgenn all of these claims are ridiculous, I'm not in the countefeit buisness. I'm simply a coin collector who have received coins from my grandfather and my father. I will happily give you any proof If you want, and yes I've posted simular coins such as riksdalers that's because I'm looking for more knowledge in the field.
Edited by kaikun2001
10/15/2018 12:56 pm
Valued Member
kaikun2001's Avatar
Sweden
83 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2018  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kaikun2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've added a new post at the same fourum(World coins and commemoratives) just for my collection if you wish to view it. Thank you
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scopru's Avatar
United States
5029 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2018  2:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A bit frustrating to see someone posting coins and getting the 3rd degree. This is similar to the garbage on the other coin site. If you think it is fake say so and why. If you have some proof other than some previous posts this person is doing something wrong present it.


Quote:
I get the feeling he's just being cute as he thinks playing dumb will make people more likely to help him out with answers

Have you seen some of the posts people put on here? How about the really smart people on here stop judging and start asking some questions of the coin that the OP can answer? Instead of simply claiming it is fake and then dragging the person through the mud.





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 Posted 10/15/2018  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think it is ridiculous to question the OP's coins based on the photos given and the obscure comments. Take for example of this comparison of the OP's own photos. One is similar to the original old coin, but the photo of what may be the same coin in his box looks more genuine. It's not hard to think one is a copy of the other. It's too bad this forum limits photo sizes to 300kb, otherwise I'd like to do better. SO take a good look at the coin he posted and the coin in his box.
Really-Old-Coin-From-1721,-Worth-Anything?
Pillar of the Community
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1913 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2018  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And to back up the idea of one being a copy, here's a comparison of some details. You see certain lines or dots or shapes differently.
I'm more skeptical in cases like these because I have encountered so many doubtful coins in my catalogs of hundreds. I don't claim his coins are fakes, I just point out areas that cause doubt. And that is an indicator that the coin is worthy of a closer look by experts. Pictures alone don't always make me think of fakes. Although some readily do, but I've been wrong before. Sometimes lighting and tilting can make big differences in how we see a coin. I would encourage members to post quality images so we can see a coin in its best light.
Really-Old-Coin-From-1721,-Worth-Anything?
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