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 Replies: 96 / Views: 12,402 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
Quote:
I have heard if only we all had a nickel every time we heard that statement, not picking on you BH1964, just re-iterating that we (baseball21) can think it's ok, legal, or even cool based on what "we've heard", but in fact several (although an extremely low %) have actually been charged/convicted/fined for shilling on ebay. in NO WAY is shill bidding anything but fraud. doesn't matter on which platform, it's akin to stealing. I'm still waiting for the seller's ID to be named here. maybe then they could put the accusations to rest (doubt it, just as much as I doubt BB21 will provide any reference to his claims that this is sanctioned by any auction houses or online auction platforms) BOTTOM LINE = THIS SELLER IS RIPPING PEOPLE OFF Edited by Wade
03/01/2019 12:02 am
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:if only we all had a nickel every time we heard that statement, not picking on you BH1964, just re-iterating that we (baseball21) can think it's ok, legal, or even cool based on what "we've heard", but in fact several (although an extremely low %) have actually been charged/convicted/fined for shilling on ebay. This is my last response to this thread. You could actually read what has been written or continue on this pick fork crusade which you have now turned on me. I am not your research secretary so if you want to be so accusatory learn to do your own research otherwise I have a fee for doing research for people that act like that. I was trying to help people showing them how the real world actually works, my fault |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5589 Posts |
It is easy to see who the seller in these highlighted auctions is .... his current seller ebay handle. He also is an active member here with hundreds or posts, especially in the "error and variety" forum. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1101 Posts |
Quote:
I was trying to help people showing them how the real world actually works, my fault There are a lot of things that happen in the real world that I would not endorse nor emulate. I don't think anyone here is trying to pitchfork anyone. We are discussing a real issue that I believe threatens ebay's existance. I don't believe the argument that "everyone does it" addresses the issue very well. When my children used that argument on me, I tried to encourage them to go beyond that and look at the actual pros and cons of the issue. What are the results if we just follow the crowd and don't consider the consequences of the action. One of the great things about this forum is the opportunity we have to discuss opposing views about many things that affect the hobby we all love. I respect all the viewpoints expressed in this thread, but I haven't changed my mind and doubt that I will. Edited by Phil310
03/01/2019 11:35 am
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Moderator
 Canada
10458 Posts |
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Many major auction houses around the world actually do allow that if you read through their terms. Most also reserve the right to bid on items they are auctioning for their own purchase as well. Quote:
I am not your research secretary so if you want to be so accusatory learn to do your own research otherwise I have a fee for doing research for people that act like that.
I was trying to help people showing them how the real world actually works, my fault You know, I see this approach in science all the time. This is what is called a 'logical fallacy' - you are making a claim without presenting credible evidence for your premise, while telling others to "do their own research". YOU are the one making this claim and asserting its accuracy - therefore YOU are expected to be your own research secretary, and present your claim with facts and documented sources. Otherwise, your claims can be dismissed entirely...  "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1005 Posts |
Something gives me the impression that those in vigorous defense of shill bidding on ebay may be participating in the practice themselves. |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1980 Posts |
well said SPP I just cant believe that we are actually argueing about shill bidding being ok
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:Something gives me the impression that those in vigorous defense of shill bidding on ebay may be participating in the practice themselves. Show me one time I've done that if you want to engage in character assassination because I was trying to help people. It's clear that most don't want the help so I will keep knowledge to myself going forward, but please show me a shill bid from your accusation. I'll wait....... |
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Valued Member
Canada
221 Posts |
Quote:TerryT: In the early 2000's, I reported shill bidders and counterfeit sellers on ebay. In those days you could follow all the bids, none were private and the full bidder ID was marked. I would mark sheets by bids and found many bidders only making bids on a hundred of one seller's items, in 20 different categories, all 3 seconds apart. It was a computerized program to systematically outbid the top bid on every item. ebay would shut them down and they would just return with another name. Later on, ebay started hiding the bidder ID and it became really hard to follow. You have to match the feedback score to only the first and last part of the bidder ID, and as****es can use so many different methods, and I gave up. (If you want to start, use the ID name above as****es, [shol works well], and maybe add maybe 3 more ***'s, and you get lost quickly) I also bought an early pile of Chinese counterfeit "crowns", 72 of them (UK, Mexico, US, France, S. Africa, Cuba, etc.) and made an advisory on the ebay community pages. It disappeared a bunch of years later and more Chinese counterfeits continued. As another contributor here says each time he posts, "Ainsi va la vie" "That's how life goes". p.s. ainsi - don't apologize for your English. I've live in Quebec since I was 15 (54 years), married into a francophone family, worked a lot in conversational French, and wish I could write as well in French as you do in English, Bravo. Is that le or la ? @TerryT: Thank you for the compliment. The problem is that after writing a text in English, I'm unable to say if there are 1, 5, or even 100 grammatical errors, and that's a little irritating for me. Indeed, because I have always thought that a well written comment was a sign of respect towards our interlocutors... But I will make an effort to mention it less often in the future. For your question, if in the sense of "Le" or "La" you mean "Il" (He) or "Elle" (She), its "Le".  ----------------------------- Otherwise, to come back to the subject of this publication, it would have been interesting to have the seller's response if he is present on the forum. Maybe this one has a good explanation, although personally for the moment I can't find any, especially when the behaviour occurs on multiple occasions. Since I find it relevant to give people an opportunity to respond before making accusations. I'm sorry if my English isn't perfect... I'm learning a little more every day.
Edited by ainsivalavie
03/02/2019 10:47 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5589 Posts |
I think that the seller is too embarrassed to speak up, now that everything is out in the open. Many of us know who it is and, based upon his past conduct, doesn't surprise us one bit. He probably has more than 1500 posts on here and is referred to frequently.
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
21614 Posts |
Okie-
I'm not sure if he is reading these postings.
The last time he was on the Forum was 11/25/18,
so it seems he hasn't been active for awhile.
Also you were close when you said 1500 postings.
The actual number is 1375.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5589 Posts |
There's a chance that he was kicked off this site, just like numerous others.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1980 Posts |
what I find funny is he didnt even try to change the pictures or description at all in an attempt to not make it look like shill bidding
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
Quote:
Many major auction houses around the world actually do allow that if you read through their terms. Most also reserve the right to bid on items they are auctioning for their own purchase as well. For what it is worth, I have seen this on several major auctions sites as well. I am not going to list/reference all of them, but this comes from Heritage Auctions terms and conditions. Unless I am misunderstanding the premise here, this should be sufficient. Look at terms and conditions download under Orders & Bids https://www.ha.com/c/ref/website-use-agreement.zx... Conducting the Auction: 13. Notice of the consignor's liberty to place bids on his lots in the Auction is hereby made in accordance with Article 2 of the Texas Business and Commercial Code. A "Minimum Bid" is an amount below which the lot will not sell. THE CONSIGNOR OF PROPERTY MAY PLACE WRITTEN "Minimum Bids" ON HIS LOTS IN ADVANCE OF THE AUCTION; ON SUCH LOTS, IF THE HAMMER PRICE DOES NOT MEET THE "Minimum Bid", THE CONSIGNOR MAY PAY A REDUCED COMMISSION ON THOSE LOTS. "Minimum Bids" are generally posted online several days prior to the Auction closing. For any successful bid placed by a consignor on his Property on the Auction floor, or by any means during the live session, or after the "Minimum Bid" for an Auction have been posted, we will require the consignor to pay full Buyer's Premium and Seller's Commissions on such lot. ... 15. Auctioneer reserves the right to refuse to honor any bid or to limit the amount of any bid, in its sole discretion. A bid is considered not made in "Good Faith" when made by an insolvent or irresponsible person, a person under the age of eighteen, or is not supported by satisfactory credit, collectibles references, or otherwise. Regardless of the disclosure of his identity, any bid by a consignor or his agent on a lot consigned by him is deemed to be made in "Good Faith." Any person apparently appearing on the OFAC list is not eligible to bid. Quote:
...I just cant believe that we are actually argueing about shill bidding being ok Caveat Emptor always applies Best advice I have seen in this thread, is look at the max you are willing to pay, if you get it for less, happy days. If not, wait for the next time. That being said, I also hate shill bidding and private sales, but that is the world we live in. Edited by purelywasted
03/02/2019 4:18 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
In the US: it can be legal, providing it is posted (eg. Heritage Auctions) https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-328 (4) If the auctioneer knowingly receives a bid on the seller's behalf or the seller makes or procures such a bid, and notice has not been given that liberty for such bidding is reserved, the buyer may at his option avoid the sale or take the goods at the price of the last good faith bid prior to the completion of the sale. This subsection shall not apply to any bid at a forced sale. I like the option it gives the buyer, but probably pretty hard to prove/enforce on ebay.com wins. In Canada: It appears it is not legal based on basic research, but this could vary by province. I am not going to read the various laws and statutes, I'll leave that up to someone else. Maybe someone who claims it is illegal ;-)
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Posted 03/01/2019 01:07 am
