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Replies: 31 / Views: 6,548 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10047 Posts |
@basebal21 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
I disagree with the contention that FB, Twitter, etc, have really changed much as far as "being outraged over trivial issues". Who wore what to church on Sunday, an Irish family moving to the neighborhood, etc, still spread like wildfire. It was just face to face or by letter, instead of by electronic device. People were still people. And they were well aware of the symbolism chosen for their coins. Here is a (to me) fascinating paper on this exact topic. It is very long. Classicizing America's Indian in the Mid-Nineteenth Century: James Longacre's Indian cent http://www.michigancoinclub.org/articles14.html "That this design was accepted as America is intriguing because Americans at the time were savvy regarding symbols and what they meant. " "...in a nation divided on the subject of slavery, Longacre could not have placed a cap on Liberty" because "the cap reflected the Roman tradition where freed slaves would cover their heads with a cap". So while "for early America, this cap was a symbol of America's freedom from governing nations", it was politically unacceptable on a coin in 1859.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote: I disagree with the contention that FB, Twitter, etc, have really changed much as far as "being outraged over trivial issues". Of course there have always been people that get outraged over trivial issues, but social media has given them an exponentially increased voice to do so. It's changed it in the sense that now it's very easy to find something to be outraged about with the increased visibility of everything online, and it's much easier to pile on/get people to pile on. The other thing it has done is given the opportunity for small groups to become very vocal and make something seem like a mainstream issue that just isn't.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Next we pick on the Eagle? 
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Moderator
 United States
189767 Posts |
Quote: ...or jbuck being assertive. It was just a warning for everyone to keep it civil. That is all. Nothing more. Quote: jbuck don't ban me :) Not today. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
It's not a matter of "picking" on it, but of trying to understand it in the context of the times. I find it quite fascinating that to make Lady Liberty distinctly "American", we ended up with a fake "Indian Princess" wearing a war bonnet.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3207 Posts |
Judging one era by the standards of another commonly yields anachronisms like this. Another example: given what the "white man" did to Native Americans by 1913, is depicting an Indian on the Buffalo nickel any less offensive than the IHC?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
533 Posts |
"Just trying to understand if this would have been something people of that era would have considered at all"
No
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote: it seems this could have been taken as a pretty inappropriate gesture for the time when REAL persecution of Native Americans was still fresh in the American consciousness. Yes it was fresh in their consciousness, but also at the time, in general, the persecution was considered a GOOD thing.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1479 Posts |
 hmmm ? hmmmm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4085 Posts |
There were 32 states in the US when 1859 started, with much open territory in the US west still to be settled. The US was still close to 50 years away from completing the taking of Indian lands as part of what ultimately became the 50 states known today. So I don't think Americans were thinking of persecution of Native Americans in 1859. These thoughts likely did not emerge until the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s and 60s. As this country was settled, I believe there was always some aspect of romanticism of Native Americans and Native American culture. As the nation expanded West, this was reflected in items such as the Indian Head cent and even the Buffalo nickel, which marked the end of the Westward Expansion - Arizona and New Mexico were admitted in 1912, making the lower 48 complete. The coin designs reflect this. I fairly recently read "The Last of the Mohicans", written in 1826, and it very strongly conveys the romantic themes of the frontier and the current residents of that frontier (the Indians) as both noble and savage. I was very surprised by this given the date it was written. The history of the world is made up of many terrible and wonderful things. How it can be so is the great mystery of our life on this planet.
Edited by KenKat 03/17/2019 10:38 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4085 Posts |
p.s. If you are interested in more about how human societies evolve and interact, the book "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies" by Jared Diamond review 13,000 years of it. 1998 Non-Fiction Pulitzer Prize winner. What happened to the Indians is a recurring theme throughout human history.
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New Member
 United States
39 Posts |
@KenKat Firstly I can appreciate that viewpoint. And although I agree that the general public might have had feelings of "romanticism" toward the American Indians, I believe the facts of the government's treatment of them is contrary. Firstly, although it is true the Western territories were not "settled" or ratified as States yet, all of these lands to the Pacific coast, north to Canada and South to the current border of Mexico were United States territories by the end of Mexican-American war in 1848. This set the stage for America's westward settlement, later coined "Manifest Destiny". Inconveniently, American Indian people populated much of the country from coast-to-coast. The forcible removal of Native American people from their lands via the Indian Removal Act of 1830 and the subsequent "Trail of Tears" resulting in thousands of American Indian deaths was the means by which the United States cleared the way. So maybe persecution is the wrong word. But there is no doubt that the United States had done the Native people wrong especially in the era immediately prior to the release of the IHC. Whether or not that was well-known by the public is probably another matter. If anybody is interested in learning about this from the Native American side, I would suggest a great book Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. It explains in detail, many of the manipulations and maneuvers between the U.S. officials and the Native leaders during this period. It is a good contrast to the one-sided version we get in our government history books.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4085 Posts |
Clearly what happened to Native Americans was terrible beyond words, a dark chapter of US history. We've got others as well. My point was that the public in 1859 did not see it as persecution and so would not have seen the Indian Head cent design as inappropriate at that time. The design probably is "cultural appropriation" viewed from the lens of the current day, but probably would not have been viewed that way in 1859.
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New Member
 United States
39 Posts |
I hear that. Thanks for the civil discussion. Also appreciated this: Quote: The history of the world is made up of many terrible and wonderful things. How it can be so is the great mystery of our life on this planet.
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Replies: 31 / Views: 6,548 |