Pride Of Two Nations Set

dave92029: I agree with you, only time will tell.

But the provenance of an antique (who owned it, used it, etc.) is a lot different than a RCM label. A civil war rifle that can be traced back to a Confederate soldier who used it at Gettysburg (provenance) or a silver teapot that can be proven to have been handed down from your great-great-great-great grandparents who lived during the Revolutionary War (provenance) are bits of information that impart authenticity and a unique historical connection to important historical periods or events. It makes an object unique and thus more valuable.

An RCM label imparts nothing like "provenance" - it proves the set was sold in Canada, came from Canada, but that's about it. The coins are absolutely the same as 100,000 others, and have absolutely the same history (made at the RCM or US mint).

On Antique Roadshow, even objects that have no provenance whatsoever, except that it was found at a house sale, are found to be worth $$$$$ - so provenance for value isn't required.

Wife has the set in hand. It will be there when I get home.

dave92029: I'm not saying you're wrong or that labels or origins, or certificates of "Early Release" are not valued nowadays. They are, and I'm trying to grapple with "Why?"

I'd say there should be some solid, evidence that proves that "Early Release" coins are statistically, in general, better quality coins than non-Early Release coins. Thus the study I suggested several posts before. If for example, 70% or 80% of all "Early Releases" were found to be PF69s or 70s, and 70% or 80% of non-First Releases were found to be lower than PF-69, then I'd say it's worth getting those labels.

I'm still unclear about labels of origin ( RCM vs. US Mint) and how to calculate the values. If they do not have unique provenance, and are all the same, from exactly the same mints, I'm not sure as far as coins are concerned, why an RCM origin coin should be worth more than a US Mint origin coin. The only value placed on them would be based on the "scarcity" of the labels/packaging, and NOT based on the coins themselves.

The "mystery" to me is the grading between 69 and 70.

Used to be, I believe before approx 2005, that coins graded 70 were much rarer than those graded 69. If you take a look at the current NGC Census results, the coins graded 70 are about a 10:1 over those graded 69. Therefore, shouldn't the 69 graded coins be more valuable because they are rarer? I understand that bulk submitters can reject coins that would be graded 69 which distorts the analysis.

I have both 69 and 70 graded coins in my collection and have great difficulty seeing any difference on some of them.

We get back to the age old question about value and what's a fair price. The answer has always been what a party at arms length will pay for something.

It appears that some of the RCM sets are asking for a premium on ebay.

The real test is when someone submits some of these coins to a Registry, and how the grading company handles them. Time will tell, and its nice that this is also an attractive set in pretty OMP.

dave92029: I agree, there are a lot more PF-70s than there were before 2000. It could be that Minting technology has improved, or they're putting more money/resources into minting higher quality coins. But you're right, the fact that dealers can reject PF-69s doesn't help analyses. However, in the case of Pride of Two Nations, even "rejected" sets will find their place in the market, given the extremely high demand for them, whether they're PF-70s or 69s.

Or do you think grading standards have been deteriorating the past 20 years?

dave, I have only one 3rd party graded ASE in my collection. It's a proof 69 1995-W and is flawless. I looked at a bunch of 1995-W's before I bought it. I saw several proof 70's that had issues that I wouldn't even have purchased as proof 69's, mostly spots or specs. No doubt some developed the spots after being slabbed. I'm completely happy that I was able to purchase a perfect in my opinion 1995-W proof at a proof 69 price. BTW, I would have been perfectly happy buying one that's ungraded, but the vast majority had been graded. All of the ones that were not graded looked terrible, which is why they were not graded. Plus, the OGP would have required me to purchase the 1995 gold proofs, which I didn't want to do. The bottom line here is that if you don't have to have a label that says proof 70, you can likely buy a proof 69 that looks perfect. It just takes looking at a bunch.

My five US Mint sets arrived this afternoon, and I boxed the USM box and dropped it off at the local UPS store for delivery to APMEX.

All eight sets (3 Canadian; and 5 USM) are scheduled to arrive at their respective destinations on Saturday.

Now I just sit back and wait...