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 Replies: 16 / Views: 2,167 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
612 Posts |
Earlier this week Fenton posted a "Very" toned 1880 S that everyone was all ooohhh and aaaahhhh over, 64, 65, 66+ and maybe 67. I'll have to ask him if he ever wound up bidding on it, but this is just an un-toned 1880 S, so are there any ooohhhs and aaahhhs here. I'm shooting these in natural window light and it's been raining so no sunshine and that means the luster and cartwheels aren't showing well today, but they are full and sparkly on this dollar. Just how do you see this Morgan?   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
612 Posts |
OK, I'll bite, where do you guys see wear? As I said, there is full luster everywhere, full cartwheels, no wear than I can see under a 10X loop on the cheek, hair, curls, eye, forehead, talons, leaves and feathers. The breast is a weak strike and there's some baggy marks in the fields, but where is the wear? The reverse is almost mirror like. Here's some new pictures under different lighting conditions. Don't get me wrong here folks, I do appreciate the grading and opinions, but yesterday I looked and looked at the 1880 S that Fenton posted till my eyes fell out, and no matter how hard or long I looked, I could not make out most of the condition on the obverse, and yet everyone had it at 65 to 66, and this has nothing to do with jealousy, I know it's not a popularity contest, but I just don't understand the ooohhhs and aaahhhs on that coin where you could barely make out the obverse through all the toning, and the blah blahs on this one. So again, I'd sure appreciate if folks smarter than me could point out that wear so I could at least understand my mistake in thinking this is an MS coin.       Edited by KauaiHawaiiGuy
05/14/2020 4:17 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
There's a thin sheen of mint luster on a coin that will be removed by handling or over dipping. Once that occurs, the coin gains a certain lifeless and flat appearance that is very recognizable in photos. The coin will still have cartwheel, but it will be muted looking and that light sheen of mint frost will be gone. Here's a side by side that shows it. Coin on the left is AU-58, coin on the right is MS-65+.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
612 Posts |
Yes Fenton, except those two you showed me were neither my 1880 or yours. Here's my 1880 again against a PCGS graded MS-63 1885. Except for the PCGS holders slightly bluish tint which makes the PCGS coin slightly whiter, I see absolutely no difference, so on this coin I suppose we are just going to see it differently. But as always, I appreciate your help and commentary.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
So if you look the the reverse of the PCGS coin in your side by side, it has really remarkable light contrast with dramatic difference between the dark and light points and a mirror like quality. The coin on the left, however, looks flat and lacks the contrast between dark and light reflections. What's causing the coin on the right to boom is that nice layer of mint luster that either handling or over dipping can wear away.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
612 Posts |
Well for the time being until I figure this all out, I'll keep trying to learn, but there seems to be some conflicting opinions here. From this article I was reading just now about "Know the telltale signs of dipping", the pictures seem to show just the opposite of what you showed me in those pictures. Here the dipped coin seems to have greater contrast and the natural coin less. I'm so confused.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
Yup that's the origin of the term "slider". It's a coin that could either be AU-58 or MS-63 and opinions vary so best bet is, absent sending it to PCGS or NGC, pick the median of the grades it gets on here.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
612 Posts |
Well thanks again Fenton, but I doubt I'll be sending it in anywhere. I have over 260 Morgan and Peace dollars, and the one I showed you in the pictures is the only graded coin I own. As I've been submitting them here for opinions, I've been making notes and changing the grades in my database and on some of my Snap-Tite holders I keep them all in based on the consensus here. I don't always like the consensus, but I value it. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
One additional note is that vast numbers of Morgan dollars, arguably the bulk of them on the market in high grades, were stored in canvas bank bags for the better part of a century. Some of those coins were against the edge of the bag, and got some toning through the canvas, which we see in coins that are blast white on one side and darkly toned on the other but the great majority emerged from those bags in a brilliant white condition, or near white, so a Morgan dollar with a white appearance and blazing luster, particularly a frosty one, likely has that appearance without ever having been acid dipped. When a coin is acid dipped, there are surface changes to the metal that quickly become noticeable. It may survive one dip, or even two, but soon the coin becomes lifeless and dul. So the vast number of gem Morgans you'll see, 65+, are in the condition they were when they came out of the bags. The one I posted in my side by side was a GSA coin that went straight from bank bag to holder. Edited by fenton
05/14/2020 7:55 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts |
I would also have to agree with AU 58.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5672 Posts |
I'd say AU-58, but very close to 63. In your photos from the article on dipping, the left side coin may have been dipped to eliminate toning, but it was not overdipped to the point of losing luster. Properly dipped coins may still straight grade as mint state coins.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Kauai (paradise island, been twice) - Everything here depends on the accuracy of the photos. Your coin could well be a solid MS-63 in hand, and I would not be surprised to see it in such a holder. I just grade based on the photos.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5832 Posts |
Coinfrog just took the words right out of my mouth.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36746 Posts |
This one looks like a high end slider to me. Probably didn't circulate but hasn't been stored well over the years. Lots of rub marks and breaks in the mint frost both in the fields and most noticeable on the cheek.
AU-58.
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Replies: 16 / Views: 2,167 |
Posted 05/14/2020 3:20 pm
