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Counterfeit Canadian Coins!

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Valued Member
United States
324 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2009  3:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Zonad, how long have you been tracking my purchases on ebay now? The image you posted is from over 1 week ago.
Valued Member
Jim Archibald's Avatar
United States
198 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2009  3:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim Archibald to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Wake up call - the Chinese Connection
Chinese Counterfeits
http://www.bubbleshare.com/users/pr...05237?page=1
One of the Counterfeiting "Stores" in China
http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoin...ng/index.htm

Just when you thought it couldn't get worse, fake certified holder's
NGC slabs - http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewart...DArticle=954
PCGS slabs - http://www.pcgs.com/articles/articl...iverseid=313
And last, a rather dry but interesting thread from (I think) a Russian message forum regarding these counterfeiter's.
<<<Edit: I had to remove this link due to one click to not so family friendly content. Thank you for the others Tights24>>>
I believe this will be a major concern to numismatists for many years and will definately discourage new collector's. The problem, as we know, goes back several years now, however a quote from the Russian forum says.. from February 27, 2009
"The US Secret Service has just this week been made aware of this problem, which was new to them, and if they decide to launch an investigation, they have indicated that while they cannot do anything about the operations in China, they can, and will, seize any counterfeit US coins they come across."
I'm certain that this is just the tip of the iceberg. As new information arises, I will gladly share it here. The only way to beat this Chinese connection is through online resources such as this. ~ Jim

This was posted in the U.S. section, unfortunately the link to a Russian forum that went into detail about the production was edited and I didn't bookmark it. Irregardless the link was edited so I wouldn't repost it. I'm anxious to here about your adventures with these counterfeits too, especially after your reaction to Zonad's comment. ~ Jim
Valued Member
United States
324 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2009  4:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Zonad, you need to appologize to this forum and to ebay for going against ebay's user agreement, and posting feedback information. Specifically, what you did is in direct violation of ebay's posted policy listed below:

"take any action that may undermine the feedback or ratings systems (such as displaying, importing or exporting feedback information off of the sites or using it for purposes unrelated to ebay);"

But there is a much bigger problem here.

ebay's policy in part is below:

Your User Agreement

The following describes the terms on which ebay offers you access to our services.
Introduction

Welcome to ebay. By using the services on the ebay websites (eBay.com and other related websites where this agreement appears), you are agreeing to the following terms, including those available by hyperlink, with ebay Inc. and the general principles for the websites of our subsidiaries and international affiliates. If you reside outside of the United States, you are contracting with one of our international ebay companies: In countries within the European Union, your contract is with ebay Europe S.à r.l.; in all other countries, your contract is with ebay International AG. If you have any questions, please refer to our Help section.

Before you may become a member of ebay, you must read and accept all of the terms and conditions in, and linked to, this User Agreement and the Privacy Policy. We strongly recommend that, as you read this User Agreement, you also access and read the linked information. By accepting this User Agreement, you also agree that your use of some eBay-branded websites or websites we operate may be governed by separate user agreements and privacy policies. The agreement that applies on any of our domains and subdomains is always the agreement that appears in the footer of each website.

This Agreement is effective on August 13, 2008, for current users, and upon acceptance for new users. The previous amendment to this Agreement was effective for all users on July 9, 2007.
Using ebay

While using ebay, you will not:

*

post content or items in an inappropriate category or areas on our sites and services;
*

violate any laws, third party rights, or our policies such as the Prohibited and Restricted Items policies;
*

use our sites or services if you are not able to form legally binding contracts, are under the age of 18, or are temporarily or indefinitely suspended from our sites;
*

fail to deliver payment for items purchased by you, unless the seller has materially changed the item's description after you bid, a clear typographical error is made, or you cannot authenticate the seller's identity;
*

fail to deliver items purchased from you, unless the buyer fails to meet the posted terms, or you cannot authenticate the buyer's identity;
*

manipulate the price of any item or interfere with other user's listings;
*

circumvent or manipulate our fee structure, the billing process, or fees owed to ebay;
*

post false, inaccurate, misleading, defamatory, or libelous content (including personal information);
*

take any action that may undermine the feedback or ratings systems (such as displaying, importing or exporting feedback information off of the sites or using it for purposes unrelated to ebay);

--did Zonad abuse ebay's policy and post personal and/or proprietary content? Surely, you must be joking--Coin Community Staff.
Pillar of the Community
Zonad's Avatar
Canada
1472 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2009  9:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zonad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No apology forthcoming for posting information concerning a buyer of counterfeit coins who won't answer the questions about marking on the coins or whether they have been marked yet. Please feel free to contact ebay if you think I've done such a wrong thing.
Pillar of the Community
Zonad's Avatar
Canada
1472 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2009  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zonad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I gave the seller a negative feedback on April 8th. On April 9th after my negative was already on 2nd page of his feedback I reported the item I bought to ebay as not having markings. Obviously I continued checking his ebay feedback to see what would happen with the item I bought and low and behold, you gave him a positive the next day. I don't spy on people on ebay unless I am suspicious of an item they are selling and check their buing feedback to see if they have been buying from CHINA.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Canada
9865 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2009  12:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Zonad,I'm aghast.You do something positive and commendable by having jinghuashei removed from ebay then you diminish your accomplishment and stature by launching a finger pointing,McArthyesque,witch hunt.While any responsible collector should mark their copies they don't have to report this to you nor is anyone accountable to you for the feedback they leave.I feel you have singled out mkb quite unfairly here.You know who he is,is there any doubt that he bought these coins for research purposes?Do you think there is any chance he would sell one? Are you not the same Zonad,who on this forum or another,less than three months ago, had an epiphany and marked his counterfeit coins? Now you've appointed yourself Inquisitor?You should have stopped after your first posting in this thread you appeared admirable then.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1248 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2009  12:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hhbkiddo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello all....
will try and create a bit of guessing game here... lets see what everyone thinks about the pictures here.....
two of the 45s I own... one was on ebay, one is "lifted as a comparisam from the Bank of canada archives site,the other is lifted from a well known auction house also for comparisms.
they are ALL certified by different TOP TPG companies..
asre tey all real or is one ore more a fake?
will watch what you all have to say or suggest..or argue about it...
but.. perhaps I am totally out to lunch....
more to come later in the week..

Image: Counterfeit-Canadian-Coins! 45s5.jpg
92 KB
HHB
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1248 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2009  12:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hhbkiddo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
just noticed that it is hard to read on the picture.
It says: one of these 5 1945 dollars is probably a fake.... which one is it?
Valued Member
Jim Archibald's Avatar
United States
198 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2009  08:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim Archibald to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Amazing, Zonad comments about MKB downplaying the problem of modern Chinese counterfeits and shows he's actually a buyer of such unsavory goods. Zonad then asked if they fakes purchased were counterstamped, but instead of getting a answer, he receives a tirade of abuse. Then DBM steps up accusing Zonad of a "witch hunt"

Quote:
You know who he is,is there any doubt that he bought these coins for research purposes?Do you think there is any chance he would sell one? Are you not the same Zonad,who on this forum or another,less than three months ago, had an epiphany and marked his counterfeit coins? Now you've appointed yourself Inquisitor?

Talk about witch hunts, my goodness! DBM, I would say there's definitely a chance that Mr.mkb's actions are questionable if only because of his reaction to Zonad's question, which I might add is still unanswered. I would openly question any buyer of such well made "replica" coins that is not actively researching same for some place like forgerynetwork.com. Since the question brought forth a open attack as opposed to a honest reply, one has to wonder.
I'm a ebayer too, and would openly invite Zonad to review my feedback rating without going into a hissy fit over it. I would say that it sounds like Mr.mkb has something to hide. Perhaps only a sudden attack of conscience, who knows? Irregardless, the point of this thread is to point out just how dangerous these Chinese counterfeits really are, and as you can see, anyone can import them....anyone. A person won't be accused of arson if he doesn't play with matches. By the reaction alone I'd have to say there's a guilt factor there. It's not a normal reaction or come back, it's a over reaction. "Why can't we all just get along?" ~ Jim
Edited by Jim Archibald
04/20/2009 08:09 am
Valued Member
Jim Archibald's Avatar
United States
198 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2009  08:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim Archibald to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hhbkiddo can you get the pics to come out a bit larger? My eyes are still good but not that good! lol ~ Jim
Pillar of the Community
Zonad's Avatar
Canada
1472 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2009  08:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zonad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the counterfeit is #3.
As for the rest of the thread...nuff said. Thanks Jim.
New Member
Canada
45 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2009  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gopher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I also think that it is number 3.
I also defend Zonad's question to MKB. No need for a defensive response? Is there? Just read the articles in the Canadian Coin News. We as collectors must defend our hobby as the RCM/Police/RCNA/Cand are doing nothing. I am sure that MKB just took the comments personelly and read into the comments. An honest question was asked. ebay feedback is a public area for all to see to CHECK the reputation of an individual and their actions on ebay. IMHO
Pillar of the Community
KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2009  10:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Zonad,
Good for you reporting on Jinghuashei. Obviously, it's pretty easy to peddle these fakes on ebay, and now that die-struck copies are becoming prevalent, detection will become more difficult.


Quote:
How many people on ebay do you routinely snoop in on?

I don't think Zonad has done anything improper. If your name here is the same as your ebay seller ID, don't be surprised if people check into your buying history.
After all, this is public information. My ebay ID is kurt.sports --look all you want.

As long as we keep things civil--and on the subject of Canadian forgeries, all's well. Btw--if some of the OT stuff goes away, it should be clear why.

Pillar of the Community
Canada
1248 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2009  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hhbkiddo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK, I will try it again with 3 45s
which is most likely a fake.... all 3 are certified by ICCS as 1945 Canadian Dollars....
Personally one has to be blind not to see it.....
which is it...A? B? or C?
two of them are mine and are authentic.

will post mere fake latrer, even 35s and 48s
where are they from?
the sad thing is:
UNLESS you have an authentic coin next to it, OR excwellent picture of an authentic coin, it is close to impossible to recognize it....UNLESS you know....
I will later tell you all a story that makes your hair stand up./...

Image: Counterfeit-Canadian-Coins! 345s.jpg
88.66 KB
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1248 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2009  12:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hhbkiddo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Gopher and Zonad....
marked them with letters...am not sure what you mean with 3.
But if you meant C, it is NOT C.
As for the RCMP.... and Fake coins..... They told me they do not have the time to follow up..
basically, they do not care......spoke with a forgery specialist. he was sympathetic, but......unless it has larger implications......or you have specific information....NO GO...
He actually indicated it is Canada Customs responsibility to confiscate these forgeries....

HHB
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