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1992 D Close AM Found, Pictures Included

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SilverCents's Avatar
United States
3281 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2020  8:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Yeah he used my coin as well and did not ask. But I don't really care.


Yes I saw that, very sorry to hear that. I would file a dispute.


Quote:
No problem. If anyone wants to dispute them, go ahead. The monetization info I pulled from his channel and the amounts paid from my own experience. My old channel had around 2.3k subs before getting abruptly deleted overnight for community guideline violations. That was 1.5 years ago, so things probably have changed, but not by much.


Ah yes, the idiocy of YouTube staff. I have also experienced it as well. Sorry to hear that your channel went up in flames. I can assure you, things haven't changed that much at all. In fact, I would say they have changed for the worse. YouTube is pushing for more "reality dramatic content" rather than the big genre of gaming, and especially ignoring any coin or stamp channels.
New Member
Taylorism's Avatar
United States
48 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2020  8:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Taylorism to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found the video being discussed and he uses 3 of the pictures I posted. He also uses 1 of my pictures in the thumbnail. It bothers me the courtesy of just asking wasn't even extended since it is monetized content. I will look into what I can do about it.
Valued Member
Tom smith coin's Avatar
United States
65 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2020  10:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tom smith coin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would have understood if he would have asked and I would have probably said yes. It is just annoying.
New Member
Taylorism's Avatar
United States
48 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2020  10:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Taylorism to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Tom smith coin My thoughts exactly. Congrats on your find by the way!
Pillar of the Community
kookoox10's Avatar
United States
1054 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2020  11:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kookoox10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay ladies and gentlemen, I have read and heard the responses of the group here. First and foremost, I do apologize to Taylorism, Tom and the fine folks here on CCF for using the images without permission and I will take down that video. I'm not a malicious person and conduct the correct information gathering to help enhance the coin community, not the opposite. I would say there are a lot of other coin youtubers that continuously abuse the power to make the extra buck. And I'm usually the one to help rectify some of the bad information that is being spread. Now to be clear, I've recommended Coin Community as a top tier group to gain more information from. That's not going to change. Active or not, I enjoy the community on here.

And regarding monetization, yes, it's my way of living and supporting my family. But it's also my way of enhancing the coin/currency hobby where others have abused the system and are making many times more than I do off of incorrect information. I even host a couple significant giveaways per year. But the health of the hobby is what's important. If being a villain to the forum chat pages because I'm a Youtube educator, then I guess that makes me wrong in everything else. There is plenty of good to come out of that media. There are folks in my position that wouldn't take the time out of their day to respond to everyone here at the risk of all the sludge coming my way. But I had to do it, because it's the right thing to do, I am guilty as heck for this.

Again I'm genuinely sorry to both Taylorism and Tom, I usually do ask for permission but failed to act accordingly to do so. The video has been removed.
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tropicalbats's Avatar
United States
6116 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2020  11:51 pm  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Kookoox10,

Having tried to contact you before but failed, possibly you could also pull the one on my 1943-S DDO-005 discovery. I appreciate your apology for doing such things, but you did not ask me for permission to use my photos and I would have said yes if you removed the making money aspect for that video. Estimates are that you have made some $2500 from the video with my coin photos in it, and I have been and continue to be peeved that you did that. I post here for education purposes, not for folks to make money off my images.

Make your income however you choose, but please don't use my photography to do that without paying me for the use of the photos. I know the value of images, and have been published with full page photos in such places as National Geographic and Shutterbug Magazine among others. I note that they do not, ever, use a photo without written consent from the photographer. Please stop doing this entirely for all and any images you do not have consent for, and would be nice if you removed all the previous videos where you've done this.

People can work with you, and your business, but you have to engage and contact them first. I hope you will do so in the future.

Pillar of the Community
SilverCents's Avatar
United States
3281 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2020  12:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
kookoox10,

It might be easier to pull random images off the internet, and sure, I've even done that sometimes. I think we all have. But when you reach a point where you're making that much money off those specific images? Then it starts to become a problem. Your motive might be to educate those interested in the forum, but having that video monetized, even if it's your only way to make money, isn't right if you don't ask permission to the owners of said photos.

Again, you make videos quite often, so it is always easier to nip the images off the internet, but it needs to stop. You've entered the entertainment business, and you should know that it isn't okay to infringe against copyright laws. Think of the drawback to this if you continue. You say the way of making money is through videos. This is not a threat whatsoever, and I don't believe we'll do this at all, but you've taken photos from many different people on this forum, and if all of us reported copyright infringement at once, your channel would be terminated, and so would all the videos. That's how serious disobeying the copyright laws are.

Now that you know that some of us are upset with using our content for your videos without our permission, and profiting off of it, think of the repercussions if this continues.

Don't take the easy way out, put true effort into your videos by asking permission to use every single one of them. I'm sure we'll work with you, you just need to contact us, rather than ignore anything we say and post the photos up for the world to see yourself, with your name under it.
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kookoox10's Avatar
United States
1054 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2020  12:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kookoox10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tropicalbats & Silver Cents. Geez...I wish I made the money you guys claim I do, Youtube/Google doesn't pay nearly enough for educational/blog videos that you might think. And while I'm flattered that you think I make six figures is just not true, I'm not rich and live a modest life. My wife does the heavy lifting with her nursing job, so I do concede very heavily to that.
I'm very use to the fair use laws regarding images, so I know my boundries and don't normally take images from forum sites and I do ask for permission save for a couple recent instances where I got lazy and not asked. Generally only relegated to sites like ebay where the content I make is relevant to a current trend or market reports and the images provided is public and usable. It's a good thing I don't a lot of "forum" driven material on my channel, removing the 1943 steel cent discovery video is easy (congrats btw Tropical)and I will do that along with only a couple others. And while appreciate the "we will work with you" sentiment, it's not as easy or friendly as you make it out to be. The Youtube side of education for coins has always been looked down upon by some esteemed members of the forum communities, whether CCF or others.
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tropicalbats's Avatar
United States
6116 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2020  01:07 am  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's not really about how much money is being made, it's about money being made on my photos at all. You want them for your business, we agree on a price and license agreement. But if you use them without even contacting me, you are quickly not going to be invited to my next bar-b-que.

That said, my folks doing the metrics on your YouTube channel are pretty astute and I think my number is right on your profits from using my coin in the video. Seriously, I'm pretty sure my number is correct at the low end, as lots of YouTubers report higher profits than what the available metrics show. I'm not making this up, it's been looked into and value calculated by standard practices for that exact video, not some generic video, but that exact video with my coin in it.

Again, your business model is yours to work out, but using as the content images from folks you have not contacted nor have consent from, is wrong. Saying you just got lazy is, really, patently, wrong. I'd more say you are running your business unethically under that conceit.

How about you ask for permission, agree to pay for photos, and generally act like a legitimate business? Not hard stuff.



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SilverCents's Avatar
United States
3281 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2020  01:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As TropicBats said, it isn't about how much money you make from something. If you're making even A SINGLE CENT from the video, just upright stealing the images and using them without permission, is plain wrong.

Remember, removing those videos will not completely solve the problem. Do not continue using images without permission, simple as that.
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Daves Errors's Avatar
United States
1566 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2020  01:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Daves Errors to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The dude is a SNAKE IN THE GRASS. Used 2015 DDO-001 New Discovery coin in one of his videos. Then he had seen I was selling one on ebay. Smacking his lips in one of his videos saying it wont sell for much because I listed it wrong. HA HA it sold for TWICE as much and some change then the one he had up at the same time. Repeating most of his videos just changing them around a lil and TAKING what he can to make then so he can make money from the ADDS and stuff people send him. Don't like this guy much and don't watch his vids anymore.
Edited by Daves Errors
08/02/2020 01:59 am
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GrapeCollects's Avatar
United States
8938 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2020  03:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
couple recent instances where I got lazy and not asked


Look man, I was a longtime sub for quite a while. But I had to unsub, when you made the video on the 81 Dbl Stk LMC I found I was cool with it because you asked. But it's not a couple, nor is it recent only. This has been a reoccurring issue for around a year. I'm not gonna sit here and just crap all over you, but it's just exasperating. I've had in my career 3 YT channels. 1 got taken down for guideline violations, 1 is active to this date, and the other was a coin and numismatic channel that is inactive. If I ever used someone else's photos, even if it was public domain or fair use I always, always reached out and asked. I made clear to them in what context their photos were going to be used for and for what purpose. My issue comes down to that you rarely credited your sources, and when you did it was limited to "The user by the name of XXX found YYY". That wouldn't pass muster if you accidentally used an actually copyrighted image.


Quote:
It's a good thing I don't a lot of "forum" driven material on my channel, removing the 1943 steel cent discovery video is easy (congrats btw Tropical)and I will do that along with only a couple others. And while appreciate the "we will work with you" sentiment, it's not as easy or friendly as you make it out to be. The Youtube side of education for coins has always been looked down upon by some esteemed members of the forum communities, whether CCF or others.


The reason for that being a vast majority are, and I'm gonna say it, complete and total morons who have not a clue what the heck they're talking about. Take CGOM, he's got 3.7k subs and about as sharp as silly putty. He never had a clue what on God's Green Earth he was talking about. "Oh look at this RPM!! It's worth so much money!!" No that's Machine Doubling, here's the difference, read this thread, here's this article, reference this book. The point being no matter how much I tried to help educate him, he wouldn't listen. If you think I was being hostile while doing it I have no qualms with linking each and every comment. He eventually shadow banned me from his comments for calling him out every, , upload. Why did I do it? Because he has people who think he knows what he's talking about. Granted at the time he had about half the subs he does now, but everyone believed him. He was misinforming over 1000 people. It would be one thing if he had 50 or 100 subs, even then, that's pretty bad, but when you hit a solid audience, it's just not acceptable. That's why the YT community gets so much crap. To your credit, you do actually know what you're talking about, so I can commend you for that wholy. Just for the sake of argument I just checked his channel and he's the same as ever.

Why am I singling out one guy? Because it's not just one guy. For each informative, ACCURATE, video there is 100 bad ones and it's just not manageable. That's why a lot of people don't have much respect for the community.

But that doesn't mean there isn't good people. RFT is a great example, he's a genuine guy who doesn't claim to know more than he does, and doesn't even claim that everything he says is 100% accurate. The 1 time I ever made a correction in the comments he thanked me and talked about it in his next stream so more people would know.


Quote:
And while appreciate the "we will work with you" sentiment, it's not as easy or friendly as you make it out to be


CCF is friendly, vastly so, much more than cointalk or the Clt boards. But there's a reason it's called the Coin Community Family. We as a group all know each other pretty well, especially those of us who have stuck around. I know many of the members on here personally, and have and do chit chat with them casually during my free time and see them as personal friends. I've met and hung out with people from CCF before. When a member dies we grieve as a community, as a family. The problem begins when you try to take advantage of that family, and I don't like the word advantage, because it's not exactly accurate. You see an opportunity, and you take it. That's what capitalism is, and I'm all for it in general. However, there are 2 instances where I don't agree. When you infringe on another person or entities rights, or when you violate standard morals. Nobody nor no company's gonna care if I use a copyrighted picture of a tree for a powerpoint for class, but they will if I use it for other forms of gain. Why do they care? Because you violated their rights. While a vast majority of photos here aren't copyrighted, they are someone's property to an extent. If hfjacinto sends me a picture of a beautiful starry sky he took on his phone, and I turn around and print the picture and sell it to a friend for $5 what I have done isn't illegal, but it's immoral. That's what it comes down to.

I don't hate you as a person. I don't hate your YT Channel. I don't hate what your mission statement is. What I dislike is the execution. Take issue of that if you will.
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SilverCents's Avatar
United States
3281 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2020  03:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wise words from GrapeCollects, very wise words. Couldn't have said it better myself.

I agree with everything he just said. We aren't out to get you, we're just here to keep this community safe.
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CoinHunter27's Avatar
United States
5887 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2020  11:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Well put.

-CH27
Collector of U.S. Coins, Varieties, and Colonial Coinage
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Daves Errors's Avatar
United States
1566 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2020  11:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Daves Errors to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very well said GrapeCollects Very well said
Edited by Daves Errors
08/02/2020 3:13 pm
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