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Walking Back In Time From 1600 To Antiquity By Decades (V3.0)

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JohnConduitt's Avatar
United Kingdom
725 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2021  12:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
My piece today is interesting in more than one way. Firstly, it is the original French franc, the first coin to be called by that name. Secondly, there is an unusual momentum in the design for a French medieval royal coin, where kings usually sit still holding their regalia. And thirdly, it was minted as ransom for a king, to pay off the English for releasing the French king from his capture after the Battle of Poitiers.
Beautiful and historical. It makes me want one. Although I suspect it wouldn't come cheap...


Quote:
I've added question marks to the 770 AH coins because I only see 7 as the date, no 77.
As long as we have the correct coin (which isn't certain for me!), it was only struck in AH770.

I'm nearly through my Golden Horde coins...

Ordu Melik Dang, AH762/AD1361
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Azaq. Silver, 14mm, 1.3g. Khan / Ordu Melik / al-adil. Azaq / 762 (Sagdeeva 306).
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JohnConduitt's Avatar
United Kingdom
725 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2021  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think this covers another year...

Nawruz Beg Dang, AH761/AD1360
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Gulistan. Silver. Just Sultan / Nawruz Beg Khan / May he reign long. Minted in / the town of Gulistan / 761 (Sagdeeva 290).
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7974 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2021  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@erafjel, that's a loveylcoin, and easy to see why you have it as your avatar.

I will add one other comment on its importance: within one year it inspired the engravers in many adjacent states to copy it, thereby enriching their numismatic patrimony, too.
Brabant: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces312359.html
Flanders: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8463710
Hainaut: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=4222466

,,,and so on.
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34464 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2021  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another amazing decade for this thread--thx folks for all of your participation!

Here is my last one for this decade, a Cruzado from Spain that can be dated to between 1369 and 1379 AD. It was issued by King Enrique II. The obv legend is ENRICVS REX LEGINOIS and the rev legend is ENRICVS REX CASTELL with an E N R I in the corners of the cross. This is attributed as C&C 1296.

Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Grinya's Avatar
251 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2021  07:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Grinya to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@january1may, on these coins 70 is written by text, not by figures.

Here is my quite a bad pul of Aziz Shaykh Khan (Saray al-Jadida mint) which will fill the hole of 767AH (1366)


Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0

It shall look like this:)
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
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erafjel's Avatar
Sweden
2124 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2021  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Beautiful and historical. It makes me want one. Although I suspect it wouldn't come cheap...

Thank you, @JohnConduitt.

About pricing, John II stipulated in his decree:

Quote:
a franc d'or ... of which there should go two on an English Noble

Looking around a bit, I think you will still get two of these francs for the price of one noble

Quote:
within one year it inspired the engravers in many adjacent states to copy it

Thanks, @tdziemia. It apparently made an impression already back then. It is a catchy design.

My last coin for the 1360s, and for the 1300s actually ... time to bring out the BIG popcorn bowl!

France 1365-80, franc "à pied," Charles V. 1.000 gold, 3.71 g, 28 mm. Duplessy 360A, Lafaurie 371.

Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0

Obv: The king holding sword and the Hand of Justice, standing under a Gothic arch.
Inscription: KaROLVS DeI GRAcia FRANCORVm REX (Charles by Grace of God King of the Franks).

Rev: Floriated cross in a quadrilobe with crowns and fleurs-de-lys.
Inscription: XPC VINCIT XPC REGNAT XPC IMPERAT (Christ conquers, Christ reigns, Christ commands).


John II's son and successor on the French throne, Charles V, continued to mint the franc à cheval for a short while, but soon changed to a new design. The franc à pied - "franc afoot" - was a direct continuation of the first franc, with same fineness and almost the same weight. The change of design could be to mark that this was no longer ransom money, the message being that things were back to normal. (Not that the war with the English was really over, the Hundred Years War only in its 3rd decade ... but the peace treaty that had led to John II's release in 1360 was still in effect and hostilities would not break out again until 1369.)

What is shown is Charles V's coronation, with some important attributes: He wears the crown of Charlemagne; holds the sword "Joyeuse," which also belonged to Charlemagne; the Hand of Justice (French: Main de Justice), a royal scepter that symbolises the king's ultimate jurisdiction. One should probably make note of that under his tunic with fleurs-de-lys, the king wears his armor. On contemporary depictions of the coronation ceremony, he does not. A message to the users of his money about his readiness for war, no doubt.


Note: Charlemagne's sword "Joyeuse" was last used at the coronations of the French kings during the Restauration in the 1800s. Today it can be seen at the Louvre Museum. The Hand of Justice scepter was used by the French kings since maybe the 12th century (its origins are a bit obscure; on the original scepter the hand was believed to be made of unicorn horn). The one used by Charles V disappeared in the late 1500s, together with Charlemagne's crown, during one of the insurrections that kept the French kings busy through the centuries.
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34464 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2021  11:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is absolutely stunning @era!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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JohnConduitt's Avatar
United Kingdom
725 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2021  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
On these coins 70 is written by text, not by figures.
Yes this is a bit strange. The 7(00) is in figures, the 70 is in words. It seems only to be a thing they did in the 770s. There's also a coin written 'seventy 2 years 7' for 772.

I will end my part of the Golden Horde invasion with one more from AH761.

Qulpa Dang, AH761/AD1360
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Gulistan. Silver, 1.5g. Minted in the town of Gulistan / 761. Just Sultan / Qulpa Khan / May his reign be long (Sagdeeva 285).
Edited by JohnConduitt
12/22/2021 5:36 pm
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Grinya's Avatar
251 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2021  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Grinya to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@erafjel, your gold coins are stunning! Great conditions for these years!


I will post one more pul - the 766AH (1365), Gulistan mint, temp. Aziz Shaykh. Mintage year in segments.

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Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Edited by Grinya
12/22/2021 2:29 pm
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Russian Federation
5181 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2021  3:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Still so many neat coins! I found a few in my collection that could be 1360s or maybe 1350s; I'd be posting them for attribution.
I couldn't find the 1360s coin I had in mind, though. But I'm only about halfway through the pile.


Updated 1360s listing...

1369 - Grinya, JohnConduitt (770 AH)
1368-67 - none yet (would be 769 and 768 AH)
1366 - Grinya (767 AH)
1365 - JohnConduitt (766 AH)
1364 - none yet (would be 765 AH)
1363 - tdziemia; JohnConduitt, Grinya (764 AH)
1362 - JohnConduitt (763 AH)
1361 - Grinya, JohnConduitt (762 AH)
1360 - JohnConduitt (761 AH)

A huge representation for the Golden Horde this decade, I see. Only three dates missing
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JohnConduitt's Avatar
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725 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2021  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
A huge representation for the Golden Horde this decade, I see.
Yes you could cover almost every year from about AH670 to AH825 with Golden Horde coins, if we had them. (A warning that we will see some more in the 1350s too...)

I don't have any more for this decade, although I do have this Russian Golden Horde imitation that might've been struck in the 1360s or anytime in the next 60 years...

Russian Imitation Jani Beg Silver Dang, 1360s-1420s
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
North East Russia, imitating Gulistan. Silver, 1.0g. Mint of Gyulistan / Year / 752 (AD1351). Just Sultan / Jani Beg Khan (cf Sagdeeva 207).


It's 1g, which is 2/3 the weight of original Jani Beg dangs.
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34464 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2021  4:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
A warning that we will see some more in the 1350s too...


Pretty sure I've got one to post when we drop back again!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Valued Member
Grinya's Avatar
251 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2021  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Grinya to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@JohnConduitt, btw, your coins of 761AH is Qulpa (or Qulna) khan Sagdeeva# 285, but not Khizr.
Please compare to mine:

Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
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Grinya's Avatar
251 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2021  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Grinya to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And here is my dang of Khizr Khan (Gulistan mint), but the year is 762AH


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JohnConduitt's Avatar
United Kingdom
725 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2021  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
@JohnConduitt, btw, your coins of 761AH is Qulpa (or Qulna) khan Sagdeeva# 285, but not Khizr.
Thank you. Finally I get the year right, but not the khan... There was quite a turnover of khans at this time - I think 4 just in 761. I also have a Sagdeeva 286 for 1359 that will probably turn out not to be. But I'm glad for the excellent verification service I'm getting here
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