@numismatic student, Sadly I've been looking for books and there isn't much. I once found an internet source, but I have been unable to find it again. I do have a "Moedas Do Portugal" and the Portuguese Trade dollar of that time was the 400/480 cruzeiros which was the Portuguese real coin equivalent.
Thank you. Seems like we've encountered the same roadblocks. From my reading, the Portuguese did not have the same success finding gold and silver deposits in the New World, which would have made minting metal coins challenging. Instead their source of wealth was the sugar trade until the 1800s. This makes the history somewhat similar to the U.S. and Caribbean experience, but the U.S. did Mint coins but around 1652 - 45 years after the Jamestown VA settlement. I'll keep looking but it seems like there is a missing history here on Portuguese colonial coins in the New World.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
@numismatic student, as we both know Portugal actually made its money from the Slave trade more than the sugar trade. And yes you correct, they didn't find gold/silver until they started exploring Brazil.
But one thing I did read was that Portugal in the 1700's basically took all the money back to Lisbon. No one in the ruling class worked (yes there was poverty in the rural areas). Let me find my post from a few months back.
"And while I discussed the coin when I posted the regular version, to truly understand what the coin commemorates, one needs to understand a little about the economy of Portugal.
While whole books have been written ( I actually have read 4 books) about the Portuguese economy. The history of the economy can be summed up as follows:
Portugal for the majority of its history was composed of rural poor farmers and small richer cities. The climate was favorable for growing almost all types of fruits, vegetables, livestock and wine that there was never a need for large scale farming. Many rural poor farmers lived next to a small city that they could sell their produce at the farmers markets. The farmers market is so ingrained into the Portuguese economy that every city has a place for one. All were outdoors (other than Lisbon/Porto) until the late 20th century.
The other part of the economy, which was composed of the richer cities (basically from the 1500's all the way until the 1820's ) lived off the colonies. In the 1700's/Early 1800's there was so much gold and silver flowing to Lisbon that no one worked. The monarchy supported the dukes which supported the aristocracy that only poor people needed to work.
What this resulted in was that the Industrial Revolution that took hold in other countries never took hold in Portugal. And while there was some industry in Lisbon, that was until Napoleon came to Portugal. The Monarchy left to Brazil, the dukes and aristocracy had to fend for themselves. This caused a little bit of resentment to the monarchy. So when the Monarchy came back in ~1820, the dukes and aristocracy wanted a say in the country. So we have 2 competing groups the Liberalist which wanted French and USA type democracy and the Absolutists that wanted a strong Monarchy. These 2 groups kept fighting it out between each other for 90 years.
Meanwhile the poor farmers are still poor.
Eventually the Liberalists, killed the reigning monarchs, and then deposed the last ruler and decided to take a stab at running the country. Which they did terribly. Resulting in the New State and the dictatorship under Salazar.
Salazar was born near Santa Comba (one of the poor rural farming areas). Based on everything I read about him, he was the smartest person in the room. He was able to attend Coimbra, mastered in Economics and at first refused to serve in the government, he only served to bring the Portuguese economy under control.
As the economy of Portugal grew and stabilized under Salazar, economic controls were implemented. Coming from an area of Rural Poor Farmers, he romanticized their image into one of country, family and rural values. But asking a local farmer they wanted to live in the city and have money. The slow economic growth can only work for so long, but then comes the Depression which didn't affect Portugal and WWII which did but in a very positive way because Portugal was Neutral so it's currency was desired.
After WWII, the European powers economy starting taking off, BUT Portugal didn't. They started falling behind. As Salazar was an economists by trade he loosened the economy (what this coin commemorates) and Portugal enjoyed economic growth of 5 to 7% for 2 decades, until the colonial wars stopped that.
And that is a lot of reading. Thank you for staying this long."
I'm with HB. Excellent historical summary. There was certainly a lot of brutality in the colonization of the Americas but I'll save that for a venue other than the coin forum. Having said that, I shouldn't pretend that important parts of history did not exist.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
Found this YouTube channel that apparently is run by a Brazilian coin auction outfit. Cringe at the way the person is turning the coin to show the edge - even with gloves on.
BwsHV-DAKus
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
The coin was minted during the reign of Dom John VI (13 May 1767 - 10 March 1826), who was King of the United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and the Algarves from 1816 to 1825.One of the last representatives of absolute monarchy in Europe, John VI lived during a turbulent period and his reign never saw a lasting peace. Throughout his period of rule, major powers, such as Spain, France and Great Britain, continually intervened in Portuguese affairs. Forced to flee to Brazil when troops of the Emperor Napoleon I invaded Portugal. His marriage was no less conflictual, as his wife Carlota Joaquina of Spain repeatedly conspired against her husband in favor of personal interests or those of her native Spain. John lost Brazil when his son Pedro declared independence, and his other son Miguel (later Dom Miguel I of Portugal) led a rebellion that sought to depose him. According to recent scholarly research, his death may well have been caused by arsenic poisoning. Notwithstanding these tribulations John left a lasting mark, especially in Brazil, where he helped to create numerous institutions and services that laid a foundation for national autonomy, and many historians consider him to be a true mastermind of the modern Brazilian state.
The coin has several interesting tidbits.
For one while the coin says 400 Reals, its value was actually 480 Reals. In 1688 the price of the gold and the silver rose 20%. But no one changed the amounts on the die, therefore, by the Law of 04AUG1688, the value of the silver and gold coins was also increased 20%, during ~150 years the coinage amount remained unchanged with the circulating coins having a value ~20% above the face value.
This coin also circulated in the US, being on par with the same value as the 8 Reales (from Spain).
Even though the coin is dated 1815 and King Joao didn't take the crown until 1816, he was officially the head of state from 1799 as his mother (who was queen) suffered from mental illness, including extreme depression and random screaming. The causes are probably related to the incestous matter of the kingdom as uncle's married their nieces and vice/versa.
Thanks for the excellent explanation. I was wondering why you had listed 2 denominations.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
Quote: the Portuguese did not have the same success finding gold and silver deposits in the New World, which would have made minting metal coins challenging. Instead their source of wealth was the sugar trade until the 1800s.
Not exactly. Sugar was most important in the 1600s. The slave trade was one of the components of the sugar trade. Plantations consumed slave labour. By value the sugar was worth much more than the slaves. Otherwise the plantations could not be profitable. It is correct to say that the brazilian colonial economy depended on the slave trade. It is incorrect to say that the slave trade made most money. It could not work that way.
Things changed in Brazil with gold and diamonds in the 1700s. Gold was found in abundance early in the 1700s. The most productive mines in the world at the time. And the very productive mines lasted until the 1780s. That was the golden age of Portugal's gold coinage.
Previously the gold used for minting coin. the moedas or 4000 reis, came from Africa. The deluge of brazilian gold led to higher denominations. Most were struck in colonial mints but meant for circulation in Europe, not in the colonies. There are oddities like coins meant for circulation in Brazil struck in Lisbon, and coins meant for circulation in Portugal struck in Brazil. Few catalogues classify them correctly.
Silver always had to be imported, form spanish america. Gold coinage by weight was vastly greater than silver coinage.Between 1703 and 1763 the Lisbon mint struck 850 thousand marks of gold. Between 1704 and 1754 the same mint struck only 359 thousand marks of silver. Most of it was from old word coins being remade. Converted to modern units at 230g per mark, that is 200 tons of gold in 60 years and 83 tons of silver in 50 years. Twice as much gold as silver
This information is from a phd thesis by an historian who dug into the archives of the mint. Moeda e metais preciosos no Portugal setecentista.There are very good works about the coinage of that era. But only in portuguese.
And the gold struck in Lisbon was the smaller portion. Most gold from Brazil came in ships already struck into coins, in the Rio de Janeiro, Minas Gerais and Bahia mints. There the work of the mints was almost all with gold, and almost all destined for circulation on Portugal, not Brasil.
Until 1785 spanish silver coins could be used directly in trade in Portugal. They had legal value. The priority was to deal with the inflow of gold. Not only the state but private traders wanted to have the gold struck as coins for use in trade.
Also, the liberals never killed the reigning monarchs. The aristocracy split during the nineteenth century civil wars. As the royal family itself split. The merchants and french-inspired nobles were the liberals, the mass of the rural people was with the absolutists. The liberals won the wars with foreign help, weapons and mercenaries most from the british. The british got a spit Brazil and to prey upon the weaker Portugal and Brazil. The defeated aristocrats had their properties stolen by the victorious ones, the people was burdened with more taxes, and the wealtheir merchants among the liberals bought themselves patents of nobility. It was not a republicans versus monarchists war. It was a war between two gangs of thieves where the least scrupulous one won.
King John VI may have been poisoned by his wife. It is likely but not proven beyond doubt. Queen Carlota Joaquina did not care about spanish interests, she cared about favoring her son Miguel over Pedro. Pedro was the heir and João's favorite. João did the best one could ask of him in a difficult situation, dealing with many foolish people. The capital move was a good idea, the United Kingdom of Portugal and Brasil was a good idea. Leaving Pedro as regent was a good idea. It was the greedy liberals in Porto and Lisbon who spoiled the balancing act the king was attempting. I would not call the queen pro-spanish. When the capital was in Rio de Janeiro the queen was supportive of grabbing into Brazil some of the spanish colonies as Spain was torn by war and without central government. Present Uruguai had been historically contented territory.
Later in the republican revolution the king was not killed. Just exiled.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
Massive thanks to all of you for remediating my deficiencies in Portuguese and Brazilian history. This has been one of the most educational threads I've encountered on the CCF.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
Quote: Massive thanks to all of you for remediating my deficiencies in Portuguese and Brazilian history. This has been one of the most educational threads I've encountered on the CCF.
Cannot edit my old post. Wanted to drop a useful link about imports and use of gold from Brazil in the eighteenth century. The historian I mentioned has published a much shorter work in english.
It does not contain the minting numbers she compiled in her other work. It is still a good overview of gold exports from Brazil. Most of it was struck into coins. Explains the huge coinage numbers from that time. Most of the coins were later sent out as payments and molten in other countries. There is perhaps a reason why sovereigns use the same alloy But you can still find nice portuguese gold coins from that century that are not terribly expensive.
I eventually want some gold from Portugal, but I doubt I'll get it the next trip. I actually want to add a few silver commemoratives and maybe pick up a few Reis.
I've been on the hunt for paper money lately but I'm at the point everything I want is $$$$ or €€€€
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Posted 09/21/2023 2:11 pm
Having said that, I shouldn't pretend that important parts of history did not exist.
