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 Replies: 41 / Views: 3,557 |
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Moderator
 Canada
10463 Posts |
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Me I say what I see after the XRF. Bullion guys has XRF which will tell you if the sample it is plated (cladded) or not. In this case no and their XRF is 2 cm potrussion of material (sample). 2 cm penetration depth? For metal alloys? What the heck is their beam source and focal point diameter? In fact, most commercial XRF instruments for testing alloys use a 50 keV tube that will create x-rays with energies up to a maximum of 50 keV. Increasing the beam source power does not give deeper penetration, it only allows one to access lighter elements. I use various types of XRF in my research (my real job as a research scientist), and I am highly skeptical of that penetration claim. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
@ SPP. Long time we do not have a conversation. Hope you has the XRF I recomended you 3 yers ago and you up-grade. No: to day XRF's ( I agree majority use 50 keV) but: The new XRF has the capability to mesure the EMF in the case of the alloys. Second do not forgot in our hobby the metals used are oxigenated metals which can facilitate the potrussions. EMF it is one of the main factors in determining the compositions. Not the only one. In the photo I will attach you can see a new generation of the XRF overal use by the bullion guy and manny laboratories. This generation I think it is transitional to SDX-DSX. Just think: if you do not have EMF, and not an concentric rotative reading, and 5cm lingot will be say gold, but in the center could be any other kind of metals. EX: bullion Canadian gold coins fake in China (my wife is Chinese and I excuse to her for saying this). All my best SPP  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2748 Posts |
I'm still interested in seeing what a XRF reading of a normal looking 1997 (or thereabouts year) quarter will read. As far as conclusions on this coin, I have been in communication with Mike and he agrees with my hypothesis that this is likely a circulated ( & environmentally toned) improperly annealed planchet error.
Thanks for everyones help with this coin and topic.
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Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
Seriously? You are talking about a simple jewellry analyzer. That thing only analyzes 22 elements. The instrument you showed would fail most of our XRF calibration standards. That whole instrument relies on a simple software package for alloys, and in particular is designed for precious metals, and is not designed for investigative research. How in the heck do you calibrate or adjust for secondary peak drift using that toy? These are some examples of the instruments I use: https://analysisdoo.com/products/xr...instruments/ and I would trust the results from a proper XRF analysis in a research lab over anything you would find in a jewellry store or coin shop. So in other words, you are telling me you know nothing about XRF analysis, without telling me you know nothing about XRF analysis.  "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
Quote:
As far as conclusions on this coin, I have been in communication with Mike and he agrees with my hypothesis that this is likely a circulated ( & environmentally toned) improperly annealed planchet error. I'd be willing to bet money that there is absolutely no Au, Ag or Pd in that coin. The percentages of Cu-Ni will change at the surface of the coin, given enough time and right environment conditions. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2740 Posts |
CoinHi has (unintentionally) misrepresented my opinion on this quarter. I do NOT think it was struck on an improperly annealed planchet. I think it's more likely that its brown coloration is entirely due to surface staining that occurred after it left the Mint.
Error coin writer and researcher.
Edited by mikediamond
12/03/2023 10:36 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2748 Posts |
Sorry Mike, I misread your earlier response.
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Moderator
United States
98440 Posts |
You might have something there coinhi - an improperly annealed cladded coin would allow for more copper content to migrate to the surface. (or so I have read)
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
SPP I will answer you: What you give the link are laboratorry instruments. I use those even the first generations from I thing before you graduate. This do not matter. what is matter your speciality: roks. Sorry not same field and not same ball game. For the small XRF. It is thermal, took in consideration the EMF and do 22 to 45 metals detection. Accuracy?: 95%. For coins I need more? NO. tell me if it is plated? YES, tell me the metalic total composition? YES. Do I have to spend 60K for and DSX-SDX for an coin? The answer it is not. Quote:
So in other words, you are telling me you know nothing about XRF analysis, without telling me you know nothing about XRF analysis. They are 6 kind of the electronic testing of samples. which one you want to discuss with me? Different applications, different surveils, different studies. You show me just 4 in your link, you miss 2, sorry the science evolute. Edited by silviosi
12/05/2023 12:36 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4135 Posts |
Who will win?. I am collecting bets on SPP-Ottawa and silviosi, both are very intelligent, convincing and it is a close race. Put your money in my hat and let the betting begin.
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Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
Quote:
Who will win?. I am collecting bets on SPP-Ottawa and silviosi, both are very intelligent, convincing and it is a close race. Put your money in my hat and let the betting begin. Not going to happen. Assuming my research speciality is just "roks" is like telling me to stay in my lane (when I already belong in that lane). I find that whole statement irrelevant, offensive, and speaks of great ignorance. I am not taking the bait here. The staff here are growing quite weary of his ranting.   "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Replies: 41 / Views: 3,557 |
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Posted 12/03/2023 6:04 pm
