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Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle Counterfeit (1921)

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burfle23's Avatar
United States
517 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2023  09:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add burfle23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Counterfeiters took the transfer process to a new level after 2008; many of the examples we traced back to a Chinese based group are in TPG holders as genuine. Duplications are so good you see every nick and mark from the genuine source coin. How they may have advanced from there makes me cringe at night...
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dsking's Avatar
United States
2365 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2023  11:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's an idea! Take both coins to a local, reputable dealer and get their take on them! They can measure, weigh and so forth and satisfy your curiosity. If they are willing to purchase them as being "real" well, there's your sign! :-)
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Slider23's Avatar
United States
4469 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2023  12:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Look at the distance between the stars and the rim on the right side. That could cause the stars by the Capitol to be shifted,


The stars and their relationship to capitol are fixed by the die and do not shift by off center strikes. An off center strike can cause the star to get closer or father away from the edge of the coin. Note the gap between the star circled in blue and the column on the right. On the counterfeit copies the star touches the column. All Saints minted after 1907 appear to have the gap between the star tip and the capitol column.

The OP coin is a counterfeit.

Genuine 1921 (gap between star and column)
Saint-Gaudens-Double-Eagle-Counterfeit-1921

OP Example (tip of star touching column)
Saint-Gaudens-Double-Eagle-Counterfeit-1921

Known counterfeit 1921 by Bill Fivaz (tip of star touching column)
Saint-Gaudens-Double-Eagle-Counterfeit-1921
Pillar of the Community
dsking's Avatar
United States
2365 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2023  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The stars and their relationship to capitol are fixed by the die and do not shift by off center strikes. An off center strike can cause the star to get closer or father away from the edge of the coin. Note the gap between the star circled in blue and the column on the right. On the counterfeit copies the star touches the column. All Saints minted after 1907 appear to have the gap between the star tip and the capitol column.


Good to know Slider23. Thank you so much for the info. I'm starting to wonder if the previous owner of those coins did, in fact, collect "Counterfeits".
New Member
Australia
3 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2023  05:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DanK1973 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for your input everyone. I'm learning along the way.

I have now measured and weighed the coins and included obverse and reverse images (1908, 1919 and 1921). My scale only measured to the gram, not todecimal points of a gram.

All coins were 34.2 mm in diameter and weighed 34 g. I hope the images are of suitable quality:

Very much appreciate it.

Dan
Saint-Gaudens-Double-Eagle-Counterfeit-1921
Saint-Gaudens-Double-Eagle-Counterfeit-1921
Saint-Gaudens-Double-Eagle-Counterfeit-1921
Saint-Gaudens-Double-Eagle-Counterfeit-1921
Saint-Gaudens-Double-Eagle-Counterfeit-1921
Saint-Gaudens-Double-Eagle-Counterfeit-1921
New Member
Australia
3 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2023  07:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DanK1973 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Based on the tips provided, it appears that the 1908 is genuine and the rest are counterfeit. Yes, I'll take them to a dealer, but the prior discussion is interesting :-)
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Slider23's Avatar
United States
4469 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2023  4:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The obverse of the 1919 and the 1921 came off the same counterfeit die with a date change. The reverse die appears to be the same on both coins. Look at the tilted second T in trust. I also found a counterfeit 1913 that came off the same obverse die, but did not have the tilted T in trust on reverse.

On the 1908 D Motto, I found a genuine die that matched the obverse date and mint mark, but the reverse was not a perfect match. I did find a genuine reverse that did match, so It may have been a die change at the mint. The 1908 D appears to be genuine.
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