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 Replies: 92 / Views: 6,198 |
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Valued Member
United States
378 Posts |
Let me add this, you must watch the entire movie, the message becomes quite clear in the last 10 minutes or so, if you're willing to think openly to judge . Sit back, relax with an adult beverage, let it flow.  Edited by eaglebub7
03/17/2023 12:18 am
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Moderator
 United States
189340 Posts |
Quote:
The challenge instead is how we, as the human race, will adapt to a future world where population growth continues apace but advances in AI make humans less and less useful, necessary, or relevant. So more like Idiocracy than the previously mentioned films.  Quote:
The Matrix is to date, a 4 movie series that started in 1999, all about AI, all about computer algorithms, of letters and numbers and cognizant, true reality. Add in The Animatrix, which helps fill in the backstory of the films.  To bring this back to the topic... The most important thing to me is eye appeal. At the end of the day, grade is just a number; I do not care if it was assigned by human or machine. I just want a coin that makes me happy when I see it.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
11898 Posts |
It is a little scary how much social media companies in the past decade have been able to track, analyze and monetize customer preferences. It seems like in the future, they will be able to solve not just overall eye appeal, but more specifically what eye appeal is for you specifically as well as for groups of buyers and sellers in aggregate.
It's so sophisticated now that there is no need to hit the like button. They track your engagement by what you look at and how long you linger looking at an item under the assumption that you look at something that you like longer, and what you choose to look at. Digital analytics will track and build on your preferences based on behavioral cues tracked in the background.
For some it sounds scary. For me, the software is working hard in the background to fine tune my preferences and serve me things that are better targeted to my wants without having to search for it.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Feels like another ai coin grade is in order. This one is in an NGC MS64 holder.   IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2365 Posts |
Quote:
Our brains, as humans, require regular use to maintain knowledge and memories. The more tasks we delegate to AI, the less efficient and useful we become collectively as our brains "devolve" and we lose the working memory on how to perform those tasks ourselves. Totally agree...use it or lose it! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Now hook the app up to a 3D printer for your slab and label with "AI Certified" and the TPGs are done. :)
One of the problems I have with the course taken over the past 20 years or so is that companies have succeeded in making customers do all the work. They don't have to mail you a statement, open your payment, process your check, answer the phone, pay anybody to do all that... they just get your money, no muss no fuss. Some of them even charge now to mail you a statement, or charge extra if you don't use autopay (insurance companies). They will argue that they've reduced the cost to you, but somehow I doubt that my benefit exceeds their savings (i.e. profit margin). But I'm a serious curmudgeon these days. Hey, remember the Luddites? I imagine the TPGs will figure out a way to do something similar. You'll get to pay to license their hologram or cert numbers for your printer per coin and do everything yourself.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
If we're going to allow the population of this planet to continue its growth along existing trend lines, we need to have work for those people to do as they come into existence and become adults. And that doesn't even touch the questions of food, water, habitable area, climate change, wars, pandemics, and so on.
Imagine a two-axis graph with two lines plotted along the horizontal axis.
The first line tracks the total population of the planet as a function of population growth and population death.
The second line tracks the total number of new jobs being created by the global economy.
At some point in time, the two lines will intersect, and the population capable of working (growth + death) will outpace the number of available jobs for that population. As time progresses, the number of available jobs will eventually greatly lag behind the number of people who are seeking employment. It doesn't take a mathematical genius to see that as long as our population is growing, technological advances that reduce the number of humans required to complete a given task will eventually lead to growing unemployment unless new jobs are created to work with the new technologies AND existing workers are able to be retrained to work in new careers. The downside to a job that used to require, say, 5 humans but can now be accomplished with only 1 human is that 4 humans are now unemployed, and unless the economy can create jobs for those 4 humans, they will be queued up for the dole, or forced to relearn new careers.
From the big picture point of view - thus goes one possible future of the human race: an overpopulation of underemployed, unemployed and destitute humans who are chronically malnourished, short of drinking water, ravaged by constant pandemics, overcrowded, and living on a smoldering, steadily warming greenhouse planet fueled by runaway emissions and unchecked depletion of natural resources, and locked in an endless cycle of wars being fought over all of those things.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Moderator
United States
189340 Posts |
Quote:
It seems like in the future, they will be able to solve not just overall eye appeal, but more specifically what eye appeal is for you specifically... I would never bet against technology, but if my current ad/content suggestions are to be judged, they still have some work to do.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2596 Posts |
I used this app on a few of my graded coins and it gets the uncirculated coins right but AU coins get graded as XF a lot of times and misses mint marks. It's a neat little app to play with.
Edited by jessvc1
03/18/2023 09:54 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4594 Posts |
Two things to remember about this kind of AI software... 1. It's highly dependent on the training set, which needs to be accurately labeled images. 2. Even the people building the model can't tell you what it is focusing on for its identification. As an example, you train the model on a couple dozen nicely centered, correctly oriented, brightly lit coins. You show the trained model a metal-detected dime. It calls it a cent. Is it because the only training images that were not bright silver were the cent images? You show the trained model a circulated Barber quarter and it calls it an Ike dollar. Is it because the only training images of a bald guy were Ikes? A Morgan dollar gets called an Ike? Only large coin in the training set? etc. Now add grades to the training set... you need 100s of accurately grading images (itself difficult)... and it will still have difficulty with weakly struck coins like Buffalo nickels. -----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Here is the result of a highly toned coin. It is encouraging that it was able to see through the toning and accurately grade the coin.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Here is a rather ugly coin that most on this grading forum thought was AU. PCGS graded it MS65. The ai sided with PCGS, calling it ms. I was surprised that the algorithm called it ms. It does open the possibility that even this primitive ai does better than humans.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Still does poorly recognizing other than regular mint issues. Grading isn't great but isn't that bad either.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
03/20/2023 2:54 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2365 Posts |
To be accurate, it needs to work into a scale and not just capture the very basic essentials. As you know, the scales make a big difference in value. Does the app recognize eye appeal? I strongly disagree that the '53 Seated Liberty "has never been used in circulation". It's quite obvious that it has been. Also, "wear" is not "trivial". It's time to move on.
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Valued Member
United States
210 Posts |
I had fun with the free trial of this app about a month or so ago. I used it mainly to quickly analyse a bunch of foreign coins that I didnt feel like individually looking up. For that, it was helpful. As for actually grading any of the coins I was looking to have graded, it was "eh" at best. IT's a good start but has a long way to go before anyone really trusts it for grading, vs identifying etc.
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Posted 03/17/2023 09:50 am
