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 Replies: 92 / Views: 6,199 |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
11898 Posts |
The world of AI is developing on so many fronts. It is a new frontier of innovation and opportunity.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2860 Posts |
Ok, so Watson beat (Jeopardy) Ken Jennings & Deep Blue played better chess.... one would think, this coin grading app should be slightly more polished, but yeah I get it, its still in its infancy.
I can only imagine the day, when AI officially becomes sentient. As humans, would it be an unethical prerequisite/request, that all T-1000's have ON/OFF switches.... you know, just in case?! Just pondering is all.
Edited by coin rejector
03/16/2023 3:21 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Obviously AI has to have ethical constraints - I watched Robocop too. People are working on that so instead I dream of the day when a machine will allow me to autocorrect all the pictures of coins for sale on the internet, grade them, sort them according to my preferences and give me a list of the best coins available to me on that day and where I should put my collecting budget into. I spend a lot of hours doing this and wish I could spend less time with better targetting to get to what I'm looking for. Just saying... IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Robocop is the better analogy where the cyborg was programmed with the prime directive to not kill anyone. Was there an AI or programmed ethical constraint in terminator?
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2860 Posts |
IMO, "yes", because in Terminator when the guy (presumably slumlord) was knocking on Arnies door and asking if he had a dead cat in there.... there was the scene where the audience/movie viewers got a chance to see the, "Possible Response:", of.... "yes/no, or what?, go away, please come back later, or.... expletive you expletive" which undoubtedly, was the funniest part of the movie.
Edited by coin rejector
03/16/2023 3:54 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3327 Posts |
I am fascinated by this type of technology. Crowdsourcing will only improve these programs and make them better.
"Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Our brains, as humans, require regular use to maintain knowledge and memories. The more tasks we delegate to AI, the less efficient and useful we become collectively as our brains "devolve" and we lose the working memory on how to perform those tasks ourselves. The real challenge posed by AI is not the post-Singularity "doomsday scenarios" of the Terminator movies or Robocop or any other dystopian sci-fi you can think of. The challenge instead is how we, as the human race, will adapt to a future world where population growth continues apace but advances in AI make humans less and less useful, necessary, or relevant. If AI continues to grow by leaps and bounds in its ability for deep learning and forming the electronic version of neural networks, it may one day quite literally make many of us obsolete, since there will be fewer and fewer jobs that require human involvement in order to be performed efficiently. Instead, our job becomes more and more to keep the complex AI systems functioning, a situation which by its very nature fosters our dependence on the technology itself. To keep this discussion more numismatic in nature, imagine if the grading AI as seen here were to learn, adapt, and improve enough over the next 20 years until it reached a point that it produced results nearly identical to the results that would be obtained from a TPG grader. Once that point is reached, and the AI is reliable, instead of PCGS needing graders for coins, PCGS now needs people to continuously develop, "train" and improve the AI instead; this means that the employees who currently grade coins would find that their services are no longer needed, or they would instead have to retrain for positions that support the grading AI. Unfortunately, that's only the first part of the problem. The second problem occurs when coin collectors discover that they can get results equaling those of the TPG's professional graders by simply running an app on their phone. This puts the TPG's entire business model at risk, as their services are no longer needed. We know from experience that technology (often) falls in price as it matures, so the TPG's wouldn't be able to keep a lock on the underlying AI and technologies for long; they would be copied, reverse-engineered, or "clean room" engineered by others in the private sector or even state actors from countries whose interests do not align with our own. A "deep learning" coin grading AI could be fed data such as pre-existing slab grades and use that to develop correlation tables and networked links, and "learn" what makes a coin an AU55, or a MS63, or a VF20, by simply looking at thousands upon thousands of examples of each. Before long, it would disrupt the industry sufficiently enough as to obsolete NGC, PCGS, ANACS, and every other TPG within a very short period of time. The amount of money at stake, and the number of jobs, is substantial -- and that's just for one (relatively) tiny case. Fortunately, I do not think the grading AI will achieve that level of competence, at least not in my lifetime. But it is definitely possible within a century or perhaps even much less. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
I tend to think of AI as something more transformative, as in enabling things that do not and cannot exist today. I think about the world with outhouses compared to homes with indoor plumbing. A world before computers and internet vs. the world where these things exist. With automated grading, I can have an internet bot scour the internet and look at all coins offered for sale as mentioned previously, sharpening pictures, comparing prices, calculating discounts, analyzing future potential, measuring competing buyer interest through online views and even comparing eye appeal through knowledge of my preferences based on my collection and choices I've made in the past. This allows me to make better choices and look at a worldwide set of numismatic material in deciding what to add to my collection. As some things get easier to do, competition for better pieces will become more intense and things that I want may take steps away from me. But the crux for me is that I am able to make better informed choices. I also don't think that makes us obsolete per se. It changes our role in ways that not easy to predict in terms of which way it will go. But I see it as having a robot maid like Irona in the Jetsons that does things in my stead, not just as a maid but as someone that travels the growing digital world around me, making my life easier and helping me accomplish things. I don't think that diminishes me, but it empowers me to make better use of the world around me, achieve more and allows me to expand my footprint in the world. If the world of self-conscious bots arises like HAL in 2001:Space Odyssey, then I will deal with that when it comes. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
03/16/2023 10:21 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
646 Posts |
I've only read the first page, but I see no benefit from it. It gets years wrong, and misses mint marks. The Capped Bust quarter it gets wrong, badly. It's calling a VF-20 to 25 coin an EF. And the lack of a number grade makes it virtually pointless. There is a huge difference between a MS-60 and a 66, and even between a VF-20 and a 35, for that matter. The only people I can see this benefiting are those that have neither any grading skills, or the desire to learn them! And if that's the case, they should probably find another hobby and/or investment strategy. Just my $0.02... |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
If everyone felt this way about the internet in 1998 and discarded it back then, we would live in the world more like the one at the turn of the millennium rather than the one we live in today. Some would prefer it that way, but personally I love paying bills online rather than writing out checks, putting them in envelopes, affixing postage, worrying about whether I forgot to pay for something and walking the payments to the mailbox. I love setting up the payment electronically online once and not having to do anything else to pay bills unless an issue arises. I love email and text messaging rather than calling on a landline and getting the busy tone or dropping dimes and quarters at a payphone. An analog to this in numismatics is being able to bid against in-person bidders at every major coin auction taking place around the country. Would never be able to do that if I had to travel to every sale. I suppose I could hire a dealer to represent me at the auctions, but that's not my style. But the world changes at its own pace and doesn't give a hoot about what I want. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
03/16/2023 10:39 pm
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Valued Member
United States
378 Posts |
If we're not looking at AI as a wide eyed infant, that can grow to be an Einstein, in a very short period of time, we're sticking our heads in the sand. What, no reference to "The Matrix", unbelievable!?  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Naysayers have always been around and will always be around. The world keeps moving forward. Was that in the Matrix? IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Valued Member
United States
378 Posts |
The Matrix is to date, a 4 movie series that started in 1999, all about AI, all about computer algorithms, of letters and numbers and cognizant, true reality.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
I fell asleep 20 minutes into the first one. I didn't find keanu reeves' acting compelling. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Valued Member
United States
378 Posts |
Understandable lol, it's like "Breaking Bad" first season and a half. There's definitely a build up to the theme, where you might have to force your self to pay attention. Blue pill versus red pill..."open your mind"...seems apropos to your end point.
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Replies: 92 / Views: 6,199 |
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Posted 03/16/2023 3:12 pm
