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 Replies: 92 / Views: 6,202 |
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Moderator
 United States
189340 Posts |
Quote:
Not able to distinguish proofs apparently. Yikes! You would think the deep cameo is all the hint it needed.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
11898 Posts |
Hopefully it gets there sooner than later.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
To summarize its faults so far - it doesn't accurately detect date, mint mark, proof versus circulation, counterfeits, or assign a numerical grade. It's fooled by mixing images from different coins and an ancient coin. But it's useful for generating a composite image.
I recall that PCGS and NGC both invested significantly in doing this quite a while ago and abandoned it. Things have advanced significantly since then so perhaps they'll revisit it.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
In its defense, it seems to bucket grades in the correct range for the most part for business strikes.
At its core, that is the central function.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
03/16/2023 2:09 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
A stellar example of time and money being wasted to develop technology which is not capable of performing even the most rudimentary of analyses correctly on a consistent basis.
I cringe any time there is an attempt to apply objective measurement to a process which is inherently subjective and nuanced in its nature. It's like asking a robot to analyze famous works of art, but AI and robots have no concept of what makes art art in the first place; so you are left with dispassionate observations of physical properties, emotionless and unfeeling.
Right now, you can ask an AI to paint, say, "a pastoral river scene in the style of Monet" and you will get a computer's best-guess attempt to produce the resulting art via mimicry and graphics processing; and indeed, it may somewhat resemble a Monet on a superficial level, but it is not a Monet and never will be, just a simulacrum. It cannot understand HOW Monet painted, what pigments and canvas were used, the weight and direction of his brush strokes and types of brushes, the use of texture, of light, of perspective, the way a scene is framed and posed, the way the colors are used and blended, etc.
In much the same way, AI will likely never be able to accurately grade a coin with the same level of refinement as an experienced human collector would, simply because AI has no concept of aesthetics in the form that we call "eye appeal." It can only provide a superficial analysis based on observable surface properties of the coin being "graded." It cannot account for toning, colors, contrast, cameo effect, environmental damage, surface defects, cleaning, or many of the other things that would affect a coin's value and eye appeal when reviewed by a human collector.
You're basically paying for a photo cropping app. It's an interesting toy, but not worth spending money on, and might do more harm than good by misleading new collectors about the value (or lack thereof) of whatever it's "grading,"
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
I think that is true for static algos but not for learning ones. In theory, machine learning is supposed to surpass human learning and at some point even achieve consciousness. Some say we are close to that point but who knows. Humans learn from inputs from observations in the real world. Machines have huge libraries of digital data that may have a much broader scope and capacity to intake, process and then create. I think the consensus is that machines will be able to do many things better than humans. They already play chess and go better than humans. What we consider subjective or abstract seems to be within the realm of machines in a more broad and complex context. Of course. that is my theoretical view. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3327 Posts |
For fun, run this through it and see what it says:  "Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Like the genie, your wish is my command. Not a great result I'd say. Lol  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3327 Posts |
 Thanks, @NS. I needed that! Edit: I guess Liberty holding onto the two globes looks like a tennis match! "Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
Edited by Bump111
03/16/2023 2:33 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Quote:
Right now, you can ask an AI to paint, say, "a pastoral river scene in the style of Monet" and you will get a computer's best-guess attempt to produce the resulting art via mimicry and graphics processing; and indeed, it may somewhat resemble a Monet on a superficial level, but it is not a Monet and never will be, just a simulacrum. It cannot understand HOW Monet painted, what pigments and canvas were used, the weight and direction of his brush strokes and types of brushes, the use of texture, of light, of perspective, the way a scene is framed and posed, the way the colors are used and blended, etc. AI doesn't mimic what Monet did. It learns what Monet did, also what Picasso, Titian, Michaelangelo and Rodin did with millions of other artists and then produces original art. OpenAI has an AI image generator that uses inputs from quadrillions of data points to generate original art based on text parameters called DALL-E which is free to try. All that art is generated from your instructions by its AI algo and the terms of use say that you own it. DALL-E will mimic Monet if you command it to paint something in the style of Monet, but that is not AI mimicking Monet, it is you asking the AI to mimick Monet. Here the Coinsnap app is not mimicking what paralyse would do to grade a coin but learning from all available grading data to render an original grading opinion if their claim to AI is true. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
03/16/2023 2:56 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2365 Posts |
I think that this APP has shown you more than enough errors and it's time to remove it and go forward with what I know that you know best!! You gave it an honest try! You've shown that you are much more advanced that this APP provides.  Another APP? Oh dear heavens! Stay with us "humans" and go forth. How can an APP provide the ever important eye appeal? Edited by dsking
03/16/2023 2:54 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Tools aren't perfect when they first arrive. I am sure the first hammer fell apart after a few strikes. Only by helping to perfect tools do you get better tools. I don't mind helping move along tools that make my life easier and better - if not today, some day. One day my eyesight, memory and attention span won't be what it is today. Hopefully by then, I'll have an AI tool with my embedded knowledge and that of many others that will grade coins better than I ever could. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
03/16/2023 3:00 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18696 Posts |
Quote:
A stellar example of time and money being wasted to develop technology which is not capable of performing even the most rudimentary of analyses correctly on a consistent basis.
good one paralyse |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2282 Posts |
You're having too much fun with this app Clearly it sucks, but you're obsessed You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Replies: 92 / Views: 6,202 |
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Posted 03/16/2023 1:03 pm
