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 Replies: 285 / Views: 11,269 |
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
7963 Posts |
Time to show coins with less than 10% silver! I will start with this Lithuanian 2 denar coin, KM#15 at 9% (1 1/2/16ths pure, or 0.094):   Interesting that KM calls this coin silver (showing perhaps there is no real consensus on how to classify silver versus billon?) This composition was used for a number of other small denomination Poland-Lithuania coins of the 17th century some of which I can post later. Edited by tdziemia
01/11/2024 06:14 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5253 Posts |
OK, here is Kutch y14, 1 Kori. Listed as 61% in Krause   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7963 Posts |
 Fantastic! The depth of some of the world coin collections here is really helping us (or is that a new pickup?). I put in a best offer on ebay for a Lithuanian schilling that would have nailed down 17%, but I guess I insulted the seller (the coin had a defective planchet and was off-center, so maybe the coin gods were just looking after me). Guess I might need to pony up real money for one. Edited by tdziemia
01/11/2024 07:03 am
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Moderator
 United States
189767 Posts |
Quote:
Here is where our comprehensive list stands after adding in the new contributions in the 10-19% slice (and some for earlier compositions). An impressive compilation!  |
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
2124 Posts |
France is ready to make its contribution! France 1468-1476, obol tournois, Louis XI. 0.053 silver. Duplessy 565.  France 1530-1532, denier tournois, Francis I. 0.069 silver. Duplessy 869.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7963 Posts |
Super! I think we might do OK on this slice after all. From around the same time as your first coin, I have this 2 deniers / 4 mites of the County of Hainaut struck between 1434-1467 at 4% (van Gelder & Hoc #14-3 have it at 0.039, but I am guessing it was 12 grains argent-le-roi which comes out to 0.0399)   Edited by tdziemia
01/11/2024 2:18 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5178 Posts |
This coin would have been 8% if I had a proper photo of the darn thing... unfortunately if I ever bothered to make one (which I do vaguely recall) it doesn't seem to have been preserved. I can try to check.   Cyprus under Venice Lorenzo Priuli (1556-59) billon carzia (no date) Numista 127028According to Enciclopedia Italiana, the carzia of this period was 0.079 fine silver (they just say "79 millesimi" so I'm not sure what this means in a contemporary system). Coinect (which I can't link here or even spell properly for some reason) does include the fineness for this type, but Numista just says "billon". |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
25614 Posts |
Amazing coins, everyone! I struggle to understand why they even included such a low percentage of silver in them.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2962 Posts |
Kinda wondering if it would be a good idea, once we round out this bottom of the barrel that if we find other coins that could help contribute from where we started in our collections to post?  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7963 Posts |
Great contribution, @j1m! Quote:
According to Enciclopedia Italiana, the carzia of this period was 0.079 fine silver (they just say "79 millesimi" so I'm not sure what this means in a contemporary system). In a system based on 12 (like the French one) and 95% pure silver, 1/12 would come out to 0.079 (just a guess) Quote:
I struggle to understand why they even included such a low percentage of silver in them. Erafjel can probably comment with more authority and eloquence on this, but I think it was because even their smallest denominations were still on a "silver standard" at that time: the value of each coin was linked to the mass of silver in the coin, so even the smallest denomination needed to contain some silver. The only way to accomplish this without making impossibly tiny coins was by using these low percentages. Quote:
...once we round out this bottom of the barrel that if we find other coins that could help contribute from where we started in our collections to post? Feel free to post them at any time, @mrwhatisit! I've been updating the comprehensive list every so often, and am keeping a running list of what needs to be added (right now I've got @oriole's 61% coin still to be added). My next, at 3% is this 2 mite coin of the County of Flanders dateable to 1427-1428, N#126945 specified at 9 grains argent-le-roi (ref: de Pas, p.69):   Yes, it looks like a copper coin because that's what comprises most of it! Surprisingly, we have already nailed 6 compositions: 9% Lithuania 2 denars KM#15 (tdziemia) 8% Cyprus (Venetian) carzia N#127028 (january1may) 7% France Francois I denier tournois N#39083 (erafjel) 5% France Louis XI obol tournois N#65414 (erafjel) 4% France/Hainaut 2 deniers #95706 (tdziemia) 3% Flanders 2 mites N#126945 (tdziemia) Edited by tdziemia
01/11/2024 8:47 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis Edited by paralyse
01/12/2024 12:34 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
I may have others but not sure exactly how to find them!
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7963 Posts |
Great additions! Those middle three shore up our "iffy" position on 17% which means I can stop looking for a Polish coin. (I think the 1 groten is Bremen, not Baden). One more at 9%, this solidus/schilling of the City of Gdansk:   Edited by tdziemia
01/11/2024 10:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Quote:
I struggle to understand why they even included such a low percentage of silver in them. It makes me curious how many coins have more silver as an impurity than some of these "silver" coins! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7963 Posts |
That's an interesting point. Surely there were gold coins with more than a few percent silver.
But the difference is that the coins shown here were all intended to have exactly these percentages of silver.
For the late medieval Low Countries coins, the types containing down to about 15% silver were usually specified as part of a series of silver denominations, with the higher denominations having higher silver content. Below that, they were called "black" or "dark" coins (deniers noirs). They were essentially copper with between 1-4% silver, but still with the larger denominations having more silver than the smaller ones. By the 15th century, the smallest denomination in Brabant was specified to contain about 0.01 grams of silver (a one gram coin with 1% silver). Around 1535 they finally gave up, and began making copper coins with no silver: 2 mites, then duits and liards.
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Posted 01/11/2024 06:49 am
