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My Thoughts On Current Grading.

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Ballyhoo's Avatar
United States
1613 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2024  9:05 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ballyhoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Before I begin, I know that I'll probably touch a few nerves. Which is not the intent, rather how I see things as it relates to collecting.

Okay. Over the past decade, the top two graders have progressively flooded the market with new holder designs, themes special labels and so forth. Even ANACS has joined in, albeit on a smaller scale. I see these graded coins, let's say at MS65, trading at prices based on the encapsulation. I attribute this to some who collect these, particularly the older style such asthe rattler or soapbox. Which I feel, to each their own. Finally, on the grading subject, Certified Acceptance Corporation (CAC). This one is the primary reason behind the post. Why? First, they do not physically grade a coin from NGC/PCGS, but through the hard plastic. Although they recently started grading themselves, those green and gold stickers are merely grades of the grader. So what's the point when NGC has a star designation and PCGS a plus? Are they not the same thing without CAC's intervention? Because of the clever marketing and ability to convince collectors to their worth, values soar from an otherwise identical graded non-CAC coin. On this issue I'm open minded to hear why you think they are relovant.

Now, taking this in to account, I feel that many young collectors see these graded coins and begin questioning why bother collecting when they can not afford them. At the very least the shear number of encapsulation offerings has to leave them confused. It seems as though it's more of a competion where grading is concerned than about collecting. I suppose the real dilemma is what ever happened to buying a coin based on your eye appeal? I don't need a sticker for that, instead I'll spend the premium saved on more shiny stuff and be better for it. While I do have many graded, I'm old school, raw and in albums/binders. Still love filling 'em from pulled change. Isn't that what collecting is about?
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Earle42's Avatar
United States
10029 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2024  10:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with what you are saying.

The fact is most people forget that fro the very start the grading companies were just businesses trying to find a marketable plan to insert themselves between buyer and seller. Yes, they STATED at the stat that their cause was to make a way a buyer could buy a coin sight unseen and be certain of what they were getting. However most people who bought into the marketing department talk missed something very important: The companies always have used subjective grading and so their initial claim was not possible form the start! Yet people bought into it anyway.

The reslabbing Game (as I call it) has always existed also proving there initial statement of the companies wanting to make sure a buyer could be certain of what they were getting was nothing but marketing hype. Businesses exist to profit. That is why these companies exist. They are not there to be the best buddies of the hobby as their primary focus.

The fact the educational info they share with the hobby does benefit the hobby is not out of the goodness of their hearts, but is, as should be expected in any business, a direct result of marketing plans to benefit the business. There is nothing wrong with that, but losing sight of this reality is where a lot of false trust comes into play. Thus we have people not buying the coin, but buying the slab.

The new CAC problem
CAC marketed their new slabbing system as a way collectors could skip the middleman b/c people now only need pay CAC for slabbing. Just remember that CAC is also a BUSINESS. So while their main selling point does have truth to it, in reality we see just "marketer-speech" for something to the effect of, "We want a bigger slice of the pie and can divert business from slabbing companies to us. After all, people already pay us as the final word anyway." As a business move, CAC now slabbing is a good venture. But anyone thinking CAC board members sat around a table with the sole intent of finding a new way to benefit collectors is not understanding the business world.

What I get a kick out of is the COLLECTOR (not DEALER) market reaction from those who never did their homework about the grading systems to start with. Trying to summarize and using just PCGS for brevity but you could put in all grading company names:

To begin:
1. "Everyone KNOWS" PCGS is unquestionably THE AUTHORITY/EXPERTS in coins and grading/slabs.
2. The "Everyone KNOWS" crowd (ignoring the obvious contradiction) also "KNOWS" CAC is capable of somehow questioning PCGS's unquestionable grading/slabs ( :o ).


So people paid CAC hoping for a green bean (CAC sticker).

Next phase:
3. CAC's slabs are now revealing people (were fooled) thought they had valuable coins that were housed in straight-graded PCGS holders...but CAC has proven the former slabs were wrong and the coins are actually NOT so valuable!

New conundrum:
4. Do the people of "Everyone KNOWS" mentality now admit they were initially fooled by PCGS's subjective grading?
But...but...but...that means they have to also admit their coins are devalued (sometimes meaning huge $$$ loss!) :o
or
5. Do people decide CAC is actually full of baloney?
But...but...but that means they were fooled by the CAC sales pitch rendering former paid for green beans invalid since the company was baloney anyway! :o **
...and...that means all premiums paid for slabs with a green bean were also wasted money :o

Beanie babies tried to teach the public what happens when people invest in subjectivity.

When someone knows to buy the coin and not the slab, they are ahead of the game.

There is nothing wrong with collecting slabs since there is no right or wrong in a hobby. Hobbies are about fun. What I think is detrimental it is overall that so people do not understand the true nature of the companies and it costs people a lot of money as they line the company pockets.

It gets bad enough some people will almost fight to the death making claims as to how wonderful, flawless, and professional these companies are despite it being very easy to show otherwise. See the essay in my signature for proof from PCGS data linked to in their own website that the companies have over 30% error (that is being generous) in assigning a rookie level variety attribution of No FG to Kennedy half dollars.


How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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ijn1944's Avatar
United States
19107 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2024  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wonder how coin grading would be handled/managed on the planet Vulcan--where impeccable logic and scrupulously fair dealing are unbending.
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Brandmeister's Avatar
United States
6448 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2024  10:28 pm  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Vulcans would pay for access to TrueView images, not the coins themselves. Having is not so pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
187446 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2024  12:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm old school, raw and in albums/binders. Still love filling 'em from pulled change. Isn't that what collecting is about?
Collecting should be about whatever you want it to be.

Most of my collection is in Dansco albums. I pulled most of the modern coins from circulation, but have recently switched to buying mint sets. I do have a graded set of Eisenhower dollars, because I always wanted to build one. Otherwise, graded coins get cracked and moved into a Dansco.
Valued Member
United States
136 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2024  12:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manosgerms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For me it is usually dependent on what sort of collector I am for each set. For example. I built up a full set of Peace dollars by collecting over time and they are in an album because I am not that interested in Peace dollars compared to other things and I just wanted the set so only the two important ones are slabbed there.
However, I also have the full set of meiji silver dollars including every single variant including things like the 1878 deep veins variety and the 1892 flames over 4 spines variety as well as the ridiculously difficult to find 1886 reduced size variety which took me a decade to find. All those I try to keep upgrading and have slabbed whenever I am not sure exactly of the grade myself. Its because I am more interested in that type of coinage and I want to get the best possible set rather than just the set. Although of course I am never going to realistically get an 1875 yen MS as I don't have a spare 100k+ lying around, my set would now be the top in PCGS if I put it out there for the competition (just because of the variety bonuses).
So I prefer to be both old and new school on stuff depending on how serious I am about it...
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