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 Replies: 10 / Views: 602 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11923 Posts |
Thoughts? Thanks!   IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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New Member
United States
25 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6399 Posts |
Looks uncirculated with good luster and few marks. I see possible areas of luster disruption however in the reverse fields, next to the eagle's wings; could this be from an attempt to smooth these areas? If these spots (which seem minor) aren't judged to be problems, then MS-64 seems possible.
Nice look overall.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
914 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
75443 Posts |
I'm at MS-64.
Errers and Varietys.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3675 Posts |
The SW-NE lines on the obverse devices caught my eye. The lines are only on the devices, most strongly the cheek and hair above the ear, but also weakly visible on the third left star, cotton balls, and cap fold. They wouldn't likely be die polishing lines in those locations. They have the look of contact marks, more of the scraping across the counter to pay a bar tab type than bag marks. PCGS in particular makes location a factor in details/straight grade decisions. My concern is they might detail it because of the scratches above the ear, which would be unfair to this coin. IMHO, NGC and ANACS wouldn't be as likely to do so.
That aside, I think this coin would be seen as a straight grade MS-63 on a bourse floor, with the scratches taken into consideration. It would be an easy 64 without those scratches.
This one has good eye appeal, regardless of the scratches. I like the peripheral toning on it. It has the look of either an old roll coin or an album coin.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18738 Posts |
i agree with FC. the cheek hairlines are not from the bag. the coin was slid across something to cause them. looking close at the field hit in front of the eye, this one does look like a reeding hit as well as at K4 field. also appears to have some rub on both sides of the wings in the fields removing some luster and rub across the breast. tough call as to what a TPG would say. 1. they could net grade the coin down to MS63 2. a chance they could slab it at UNC details something caused those hairlines either on purpose, or possibly in circulation. my guess is that those hairlines across the face and hair around the ear and adding those field issues, it would come back as UNC details (cleaned), code 92 which states "Surface damage due to any form of abrasive cleaning. where 'Cleaned' covers a wide range of appearances, from a grossly polished coin to one where faint hairlines can be seen only at a particular angle or in only one area on an otherwise perfectly normal coin" even if they look at this as unintentional it most likely would still receive UNC details grade |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
11923 Posts |
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3675 Posts |
Your in-hand photos are very good.
The fields look better in hand than the original photos. To my eyes, the surfaces look original. There is a little more chatter on the reverse than the first photos suggested, but it isn't bad. The heaviest marks are the SW-NE scratches across the obverse (especially the hair above the ear) and some horizontal gouges on the eagle's breast. Since those are the highest points of the design, it isn't surprising. The field scratch in front of the eye looks like a typical bag contact or two. It's there, it's visible, but it isn't awful. With the new photos, it even more looks like this coin had a scrape or two across a counter for payment.
IMHO, the TPGs have tightened standards a bit from the really loose grading early in the pandemic, back to about where they were grading just before the start of the pandemic. They still aren't anywhere near where they were 15-20 years ago, though. I know I have seen 1878 Morgans of all varieties slabbed as MS-62, MS-63, MS-64, and even a very few MS-65 with similar high-point scratches. The MS-65 slabs seemed to appear out of nowhere in 2021 and 2022, and were definitely overgraded, and rightfully are treated that way by buyers. The MS-62 (or UNC details) coins are where the coin would have graded 15-20 years ago. Today? *shrug* Anything from MS-62 to MS-64 seems possible.
Just from where I sit -- and my opinion and a dollar will buy you a half cup of day old gas station coffee -- the look and feel of this coin still lands on MS-63, straight grade. I think that would be the bourse floor haggle point for it. For a mid-UNC, it looks nice. The overall eye appeal is there. And any 8TF that looks decent is getting tough to snag. There are a lot of suddenly over-dipped blah coins all over the place.
I personally wouldn't slab it. The risk of it getting detailed or dropped to MS-62 would deter me from paying the money to have their opinion in plastic. I think it shows well enough to price it as an MS-63+ in-betweener or MS-64, don't assign it a grade, and see where it goes.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
914 Posts |
Those look like some heavy roller marks to me running SW to NE, not scratches, no?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36906 Posts |
Nice obverse but the wing hit is a distraction. I would have gone 65 had that not been there. MS-64
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Replies: 10 / Views: 602 |
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Posted 09/04/2025 5:23 pm
