| Author |
 Replies: 12 / Views: 921 |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3323 Posts |
I know that coin grades are subjective, and I know that market forces dictate (in part) grades assigned. I sent 22 coins off to PCGS back in June at the Blue Ridge Coin show. Two of the coins were submitted under a higher tier and I've already gotten those coins back. One was a request to consider restoration on a high grade 1878 Morgan Rev of 1878. They elected not to restore the coin, and I received an AU/Det grade. Although I didn't see signs of cleaning under the heavy toning, when you look at the True View photos of that coin, the cleaning is apparent, and I accepted the grade. The second coin is a low population Morgan VAM (1883 VAM-10) that I expected to receive a MS63 grade on. The coin came back MS62. I wanted to provide True View photos of the few coins in PCGS's library and ask your opinions. I'll provide the grades and let's see what you think. We know True Views aren't the best way to grade a coin, but let's have a look. I have a thick skin, so don't hold back! Thanks. (Edited for spelling) PCGS MS64 plate:  PCGS MS63 #1:  PCGS MS63 #2:  PCGS MS63 #3:  My coin / PCGS MS62:  "Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
Edited by Bump111
09/08/2025 4:29 pm
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
I think your coin could end up in a 63 holder, I wouldn't argue with that. It has a lot of light, thin chatter but not many heavy hits. For a 62 and below, I would expect to see gouges and reed contact hits that would distract the eye when analyzing the coin.
Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
 United States
10504 Posts |
Your 62 looks as good as the 63's. But also like you stated we are looking at (glam) photos.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1768 Posts |
I think 62 is accurate. I would also have the 3 63s as MS-62. I keep hearing all the grading companies are getting stricter.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
3323 Posts |
Thanks for the comments. This is a variety that hasn't been found better than the MS64 example you saw above. Nearly every one I've seen has appreciable scarring on the obverse. I am in the same camp - I think my dollar is properly graded while the 63s are over-graded. The sad part is that one step in grade between 62-63 is a difference of about 400-500 dollars for this coin! I suppose I should be happy with the grade anyway.  "Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
I have "my coin" at MS62 because of the tarnish spots. I agree with PCGS.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18657 Posts |
if you have issues getting decent photos in slabs and you plan on posting it for assessment here you should take photos prior to submission. grading as grading by TV is always a crap shoot. I grade the coin by TV photos then drop it a grade. almost always thats what the coin looks like in hand.
TV grade MS63 - My grade MS62
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3323 Posts |
Quote:
I have "my coin" at MS62 because of the tarnish spots. I agree with PCGS. Thank you for your assessment, @Slider. That may have been a consideration, but the MS63#1 coin has much more "tarnish" than does mine. If the spots on my coin dropped it by a grade, do we consider that "fair?" This is the main reason I posted this coin for consideration. I think this is a good example of how market grading is applied. Is the color on my coin less desirable that the color on that first coin? I'd argue that the condition of the coin otherwise is as good. Quote:
if you have issues getting decent photos in slabs and you plan on posting it for assessment here you should take photos prior to submission. grading as grading by TV is always a crap shoot. I grade the coin by TV photos then drop it a grade. almost always thats what the coin looks like in hand.
TV grade MS63 - My grade MS62 I appreciate your thoughts, @panzaldi. And I agree that grading strictly from a True View is not going to be accurate as I stated in my initial comment. I think in this instance, a comparison of the five coins from photos taken in the same environment by the same studio should be acceptable for comparison purposes, but not for accurate grading. I'm not an acceptable coin photographer (yet) but I can say based on more than 50 years of evaluating coins that this coin looks much better in person than it does in that TV, as I'm sure the others do as well. You really have to light the coin and twist it here and there to pick up the imperfections as they are displayed in that TV. Again - my contention is not that my coin should have been a 63, but that the three that were given 63s should also not be graded that high. If the MS63s were graded that high because of market pressures (a rare variety) then mine should have also been given the same consideration - and that's why I was expecting to get the 63 grade. I see little difference between the four coins. Edited for spelling "Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
Edited by Bump111
09/10/2025 10:02 am
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
I think your coin is slightly undergraded but close ups of the cheek and the left obverse field seem a little more baggy than the comparison coins in your original post.   IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
Quote:
Thank you for your assessment, @Slider. That may have been a consideration, but the MS63#1 coin has much more "tarnish" than does mine. If the spots on my coin dropped it by a grade, do we consider that "fair?" This is the main reason I posted this coin for consideration. I think this is a good example of how market grading is applied. Is the color on my coin less desirable that the color on that first coin? I'd argue that the condition of the coin otherwise is as good. The tarnish on the MS63 #1 is not a grading negative as the rim toning happened most likely from being in a cardboard flip, album, or a plastic holder. The coin would not have been down graded because of the toning. On the "my coin" the tarnish is a spot that could be what is called a carbon spot ( a metal other than silver leaking through causing the spot). Coins that are dipped will often develop tarnish spots Some collectors will NOT purchase coins with tarnish spots because of the issues. The TPG's tend to see the tarnish spots as a negative. I had a Morgan with a tarnish spot on the cheek that I thought was an easy MS65 but PCGS graded the coin at MS64 and CAC declined to sticker. Let me know if you want to see a silver half dollar with a carbon spot and a silver half dollar with a tarnish spot after dipping. Both of these coins were dipped but the carbon spot could not be removed with a dip. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3323 Posts |
If I had thought that those two toning spots could possibly reduce the grade by a point, I could certainly have spot treated those areas with EZEst, but I rarely use that product. They are in areas that could be reduced without greatly disturbing luster - especially the obverse one. Maybe I should have done that but I submitted the coin as was. I don't see carbon spotting on the coin in hand, just three toning spots from (most likely) holes in the mylar flip in which it was previously housed when purchased.
"Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
Removing the tarnish spot with eZest is not always the solution as the tarnish spot can etch the surface of the coin and when the tarnish spot is removed, it leaves a white spot. The spot on the obverse looks like it could be terminal black that could possibly leave a white spot when removed.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
36724 Posts |
Yours looks like a 63 to me.
|
| |
Replies: 12 / Views: 921 |
|
Posted 09/08/2025 8:35 pm
