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 Replies: 53 / Views: 5,966 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
basicbob101, I'll help you all day long if your intent is to learn. I have a few limitations here though. At work (in my free time  ) I can't access VAMWorld or see images hosted by sites such as Photobucket, InkFrog, Auctiva, etc. Also, if you post a link to say an ebay auction, I can't see that. My focus is 1878-P and -S Morgans, but I also dabble in 1880-P, -O, 1891-O, and 1921-D. If you have a '78, post a picture of the entire obv and rev here and I'll not only nail or narrow down the die pair ... I'll explain how I came to that conclusion. At home in the evenings and on weekends, I will pop in and have full access to all the sites and can see all pictures. Unfortunately I'm also fully pursuing new acquisitions.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
819 Posts |
thnanxz zeewool, I have a number of Morgans already that I am going to search, but also will be looking at those for sale by dealers, flea markets, auctions, etc to see about picking up some VAMs once I know what I am looking for. If I am fortunate enough to find some (one?) good VAMs in my existing collection of Morgans I would be more than happy to part with them and substitute a regular Morgan in its place. I wish there was a clearing house for VAMs that would list those wanted by VAM collectors. I don't want to make a killing, but if I can profit from selling VAMs in order to finance my real addictions to collection other coins I will be happy. Always remember "pigs get fat, but Hogs get slaughtered" (advice my my stockbroker when I asked about selling a particular holding that was very "up" at the time.) |
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Pillar of the Community
 3660 Posts |
I 'strongly' recommend taking the baby steps first before entering in the national sprint trials Bob. Give yourself a couple of years to learn the nature of the beast first. If you rush in with the notion of making a even small profit on vams without a pretty solid personal knowledge base, you will emerge as as a big loser. I would also not suggest you make further references to making a profit, if you desire help from those who have dug and scraped for the knowledge that they possess. The most helpful folks will be the ones who still believe that this is a hobby rather than a business venture.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
basicbob101, There are many very popular and marketable Morgan VAMs. You can track auction results yourself (Heritage, Teletrade, VAMQuest and ebay) or drop $21 for an annual membership in SSDC (Society of Silver Dollar Collectors). They provide a synopsis of completed sales/auction results. This "price guide" is sent to members semi-annually (PDF file) and includes prices realized for the past six months. It does contain some misleading information (one-time sales) but you will readily see the "whales". But they are whales for a good reason ... they are very difficult to find! Some examples would be 1878-P VAMs 14.4-14.20, 44, 123, and 166; 1889 VAM 23, 1921-D VAM 1X, plus others. These sell in just about any condition. Other popular varieties need to be in higher grades to be marketable. One of the biggest areas for exploitation is within the PCGS Registry program. Find a Top 100 in Top Pop grade and bingo! |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:I wish there was a clearing house for VAMs that would list those wanted by VAM collectors. I don't want to make a killing, but if I can profit from selling VAMs in order to finance my real addictions to collection other coins I will be happy. Such things exist. The concept brings up another point which needs to be made, though. The enthusiasm and commitment displayed by hardcore VAMmers obfuscates their rarity. At this point, there are too few people actually collecting VAMs to "make" a market for any but premium-grade Mint State examples of the more popular varieties. Only the very rarest of VAMs command a premium in circulated grades. As a case in point, I can't think of more than two or three of my beloved 1921-D's which I could flip for easy profit in XF45. One hears the stories of the ultra-rare 8TF's going for insane money in VG10, extrapolates the idea to obscure 1881-S varieties, and comes up empty-handed. Yet another point: Rarity is a SWAG at its' very best right now. We have nowhere near the long-term database, such as that enjoyed by Bust Half collectors, upon which to make firm conclusions regarding the true rarity of a given VAM. Yes, we're in the neighborhood with some of the more popular varieties - 1878-P's come to mind but the more obscure of them still haven't had enough attention from collectors to establish a baseline. In view of these facts, it's my position that VAMs are not currently an appropriate vehicle for profit-taking; demand is simply too low even for those currently considered R-7. Not that I'm not trying (  ), but it's an inevitably-frustrating process. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Quote:
In view of these facts, it's my position that VAMs are not currently an appropriate vehicle for profit-taking; demand is simply too low even for those currently considered R-7. Not that I'm not trying (), but it's an inevitably-frustrating process.
For the most part SuperDave I would agree. But there are some exceptions. It would require the VAMmer to "cherry-pick" an unattributed VAM. I've "picked' a total of 4 VAM 9's off ebay. The most I paid was $110 for an AU example. The others were one VF and two EF and I paid less than $50 each for them. I traded an EF for a PCGS AU53 1880-P VAM 39A and sold the other EF and the VF for $400 and $350 respectively on the Bay. I will keep the AU for myself. The one EF I traded was PCGS EF40 all the others were raw. I also watch a feeding frenzy whenever a 14.6, 14.7 etc shows up. There are other VAMs I watch for that cause a frenzy if the pictures are decent enough to attribute them. I was first underbidder recently on two 78-S offerings: One was a VAM 18 "Spaghetti Wing" in MS 62 raw and the other a VAM 22 in an NGC 63 holder (unattributed). Neither of these coins should sell for over $80 but my $375 bid on the VAM 18 and $175 bid on the VAM 22 took second place. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
Super Dave said: "In view of these facts, it's my position that vams are not currently an appropriate vehicle for profit-taking; demand is simply too low even for those currently considered R-7. Not that I'm not trying but it's an inevitably-frustrating process."
I very much agree.
If you are vamming with the idea of making a profit and being consistent at it, you will need to have a sharp eye, a keen memory, consistently work at it and need a large measure of luck as well as money to buy coins. Then you need a market to sell them. None of these items listed should to be taken for granted.
I truly think vamming is more a labor of love and it has a steep learning curve.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
819 Posts |
Good points all, and highly appreciated. I do "picking" for several antique dealers here in Texas. I have considerable knowledge in some areas, such as antique Texas stoneware, and often run across items that I know immediately where I can sell it and for how much. Of course I do this for a profit, though I realize the one I am selling to is paying me "wholesale" prices because they have to resell it at a profit to stay in business. Then I know several private collectors and what they are seeking. I wouldn't mind becoming well versed in VAM's so I could do the same. I agree with the fact that it looks like a steep learning curve, but would add it also seems lOOOOOOOOng! Thbe first thing I plan on doing is going over my 78,s (all BU, unslabbed) to make some comparisons, If I think I find anything will post it here. thanxz all |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
I must say I really like where this thread has developed, and the many facets of collecting VAM's that have been addressed in one topic alone. From the addicted treasure hunter (new and old timers) seeking that pot of gold under the rainbow, finding that known VAM or new discovery piece in the closet, to the rarity values and its "relative" importance. Foremost...New Vammer's and problem's they go through to get some insight on the trinkets we have, turning us on or off before we really get started...There are many Dealers who make money on VAM's I would say to the new vammer, its just like Zeewool, Oz and nut,brian and dave have pointed out...... it's not something learned or profited over night or even month's..It takes those "baby steps" time and research and help or good money will be thrown away chasing that pipe dream "and you bogarted that pipe!LOL" The rarity issue that's pointed out with low interest R6 or R7 won't command a premium...Another important fact "the Animosity Factor" new vammer's will feel is the competing True interest in the hobby against the help/knowledge dealers wanting too cash in on without any effort themselves..with the exception of stealing others hard learned time consuming effort AND MONEY to understand VAM's.. I would say the real "RAINBOW" is the "FRIEND'S" and help you can get as people see the effort you put into Vaming, you always get more when you give more......There are many here who continue to inspire the learning curve, the process and advice of how and where to learn the art of vaming. The TOP 100,50,40 and thirty are books that list the most collected varieties, NOT the list of the most valuable VAM's But...its a good place to start..... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
While we have discussed some of the negatives there are rewards. For the well prepared vammer that can recognize die pairs when examining a coin, there are many varieties simply waiting to be cherry picked. Major rarities are laying out in the open just like other coins waiting to be found. I know this from my own experience. Jack Lee (of Maryland) has spent a great deal of time studying and collecting 1878-P eight tail feather coins. He has in his collection a PCGS 1878-P VAM 14.7 Mint State 63 Deep Mirror Proof Like. It is a major rarity and commands a major rarity price. I have talked to quite a few vammers and almost all universally enjoy the thrill of the hunt. To others the self discipline needed to be successful is more rewarding. Then of course, you have people who are incredibly lucky. All in all, it makes for a very satisfying hobby. The sheer numbers of varieties insure that the hobby doesn't become stale and in the final analysis, isn't that what we all want? A hobby that we can go old with! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
I suspect that you attribute it not being as claimed by the leaves on the branch that the bird is holding? You have really got the eagle's eyes Bryan.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
on the up side it is worth the $0.99 cents!!  There are many great POSITIVE things going on in collecting VAM's and....... a few like Brian has just shown, some pitfalls along the way..the old term "Ignorance is bliss" (sometimes you just don't want to know)  does not apply here , education goes along way.........A treasure hunter I will always be, and continue to enjoy looking, learning as I go....  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
Every endeavor has its pitfalls. Like baseball, you can't hit a home run unless you take a swing at the ball. But in this case, it's best to wait on the right pitch.
My best advise to new vammers is this. Look for the unusual or coins that are strongly clashed with letter transfer. Take the time to learn the coins. The attribution 101 guide on vamworld was written for newbies just getting in to the hobby. Do your research. This hobby requires that you do your due diligence.
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Great advice from some great guys. Thanks all.
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Replies: 53 / Views: 5,966 |
First Page
Posted 02/09/2010 11:15 am
