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 Replies: 354 / Views: 19,092 |
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Pillar of the Community
 3660 Posts |
Both beautiful and oh so true Dave....(truly beautiful). You need to seriously contemplate writing some numismatic books. You certainly have the knowledge, the skill with the pen (or keyboard), the background and the thought process to bring it all together into most interesting food for thought. I really love reading your posts (most of them anyway  ). |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Thank you for the kind words, zeewool. I would say, though, that the fundamental wild-eyed fanaticism with which yr. obt. svt. regards the keyboard deliberately does not leak into his postings; you might like me less if you knew where I'd truly like to take this stuff.  |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
I kinda doubt it. There are lots of folks who I am in total disagreement with on many topics, and I have some low and dark thoughts about their mental capabilities some times, and other times I just want to slap them, but I still care about and am very fond of them. Brian R. fits the bill
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Discovering that one has feelings of antipathy towards another is, in my opinion, best explored by looking inward rather than outward. As a Moderator, this informs my attitude towards every member and every topic posted here. There is much to be learned while facing in any direction, if only we can overcome preconceived notions. Of which I'm stocking many. Some of the greatest contributors to VAMming are personalities I couldn't see myself quaffing a beer with, which in no way diminishes their contribution to the overall good. |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Okay Dave, forget what I said about the numismatic book, maybe you could write some inspirational material (or possibly some inspirational numismatic stuff) for the hopelessly lost and confused like me. I had forgotten what this increasingly torturous thread was supposed to be about. Collars........wow, I have gotten really carried away. I actually am fairly scatter brained, so that is my excuse. I'm going to go lie down now.  |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Something I have never considered before, but have been thinking about for the past few minutes is the difference between a 'strike through' and a 'filled die'. I think that I can usually tell the difference automatically just by looking at the effect, but I don't know the definitions. I would appreciate someone explaining this, so that maybe I could learn what the verbal characteristics of each are. I will have more questions.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
A filled die is when letters are missing or partially missing due to the striking collecting smudge. Smudge is a combination of dust, dirt, grease and metal shavings that collect in the striking die. Think of this as a semi-hard paste. These are considered striking errors and are no longer listed by Leroy Van Allen. If fact if he could delist the filled letter varieties he would. They are not listed as these die fills can last one up to maybe a dozen strikings.
A strike-thru is also a mint error and while similar to a filled die, the strike-thru errors are not confined to smudge. The strike-thru could be wire, wood, grease, linen, hair and just about any debris laying around a minting press. The difference is the strike-thru can be any where, whereas the filled die is usually a letter, typically, In God We Trust as these we small letters easily affected by the accumulation of smudge.
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Excellent. Thanks Terry. Are there a physical laws as to location, topography, or size to each?
For instance, how would a person distinguish a chip from a fill? Are fills typically confined to the scope of a small device? Are they (on the die) in relief of die field? What distinguishes crud from a broken field point on a filled 'O' for instance? What is the difference (in field relief) between a fill and a strike through? (You know, that sort of stuff).
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
So many questions. You ask. 'Are there a physical laws as to location, topography, or size to each?' Not that I am aware of. A filled die is usually confined to letters. Usually these are small letters and these tended to collect smudge.
A die chip is just what the word implys. Essentially, part of the die that has chipped and these can be found anywhere. 'Are they (on the die) in relief of die field? I do not have an answer to this question. I would have to think about this. 'What is the difference (in field relief) between a fill and a strike through? (You know, that sort of stuff)'.
Strike-thru errors tend to be messy. Grease strike-thrus can obilerate whole legend letters such as O-N-E D-O-L-L-A-R. In fact I have a 1921-D which has two mint errors. On the obverse it has a lamination error and on the reverse a big grease strike-thru where one L of DOLLAR is obliterated resulting in D-O- -L-A-R.
Strike-thrus can be found anywhere and it can be any foreign substance.
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Yes, thanks once again Terry. The reason that I ask these questions, is that I was reading though some old threads for giggles, and noticed that certain questions are 'recurring' in nature. "Is this a strike through?" The replies vary, based on the photo supplied. Rather than think and react with differing words, for each instance, I thought that if we could come up with our own glossary of term definitions or the distinguishing differences between commonly confused terms, we could simply refer to the glossary, copy and paste, and assist the holder of the coin to make their own assessment of the situation, rather than rely on our opinions based on dubious photos.
For instance, I might think that (if in a device), a strike through will always appear as a depression in a coin's device. If in the field, it will be in recessed profile in relationship to the balance of the field.
A fill will appear as extra metal in small recessed areas (as you explained earlier).
I am not a person to define these things, but I may be able to assist in characterizing effects for subsequent editing.
Okay idea? Bad idea? Not worth the trouble?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
anything that is simple and straight to the issue is of importance, using slang is only good when every one knows what the word means, this is true for coins also. there is quite a few more words than most use today, mostly used for other coins describing the effect we see for other coinage..I will see if I can find the list again, it is interesting, perhaps someone else knows the website...
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
I thought that if we could come up with our own glossary of term definitions or the distinguishing differences between commonly confused terms, we could simply refer to the glossary, copy and paste, and assist the holder of the coin to make their own assessment of the situation, rather than rely on our opinions based on dubious photos. We could add them to the one we already have. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
 what a concept! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
I am all for advancing the knowledge base of collectors. After all, knowledge is king. Although at times, ignorance is bliss. Vamming isn't easy. It is probably better suited for advanced collectors. You have to want to do this. I have long advocated vamming for some is like comparing pimples on someone buttocks, but for others it is 'cutting edge' numismatic forensics and it forces you to think about a lot of things (some of them little things) that you otherwise would not have thought about. Zee you took the time (or made time) to understand the coining process. In learning that process you discovered quite a few discrepancies and wanted answers as to why. You then discovered, the big names in the hobby really didn't have (good) answers to those questions. So you did a little more research. You did this to satisfy your curiosity more than anything else. This isn't just about Morgan or Peace dollars, but understanding what you are looking at and satisfying yourself as to why. In my humble opinion it is worth the trouble and through your research we here at coin community are much the better off for it. You don't consider yourself a vammer? I regret to inform you that you are already on your way to becomming one and a good one at that. |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Well hey buddy. Glad that you dropped by. I was a bit worried that I may have turned you off somehow. Yes, if there is already such a glossary that we (or at least I) could hijack, that would be quite convenient. Maybe some modifications might be in order, but then, you all may not think much of the notion anyway. I remember when I was asking such questions, like 'what is the cause of a Cud' for instance, I was hit with visions of cattle stampedes in the coining room, cows caught between upper and lower dies, etc, etc. If was lots of fun, but it slowed me down quite a bit from what I really wanted to learn. Die gouges involved cats caught in similar situations, strike throughs were side effects of the timber logging activities within the same coining room, the mint of the 1870s was a very wild and woolly sight to behold evidently. |
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Posted 07/28/2010 11:35 am
