Die Crack On 1887-P

Hi
Rich, the crack that is not seen, actually is seen by the holder of the coin or he couldn't mention it...its NOT a break.....for the 19A which is under review at this time, has possibly 8 stages, in the early stages the crack (EDS state) is very minimal. meaning that it can be seen but is not HUGE, the key feature in determining if its is a VAM 19A or B is the die crack that runs along the top of the bonnet, which in his photo's, can be enlarged and seen......
in the past that alone would pass the test for VAM 19B, an R7 but not so sought after coin...just having the crack in the past and the die crack from the 4th star to the rim would have been enough to be an EDS of VAM 19B........vam 19B has a die BREAK a larger crack with metal chunks....from the 4th star to the rim..... as its under review. I have know idea what they will do with it....delist one of the numbers or re-catagorize it some how.. just something I was reading about.....and VAM world now has an additional posting/clarification for this as well as one of the members is reviewing it....But this is his coin.....

Having no joy with pictures. So here is a description. On reverse, a crack runs from TES clockwise to tip of eagles wing, then from first A in America to 2nd L in Dollar and from O in one to tip of other wing.
On Obverse from 2nd 8 anti-clockwise to the E.
Will this help?

Stevan, unfortunately, I would have to say no, there is no way to identify a particular VAM without pictures. Cracks are totally inconsequential in the identification of a die......Yes, I know that this is ridiculous and makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, but that is the way it is with vams. The reason for this totally escapes me other than to say that the rules were probably made up as time went by, and were adopted to fit the situation at hand.

The differentiation between die specific markers and and hub specific markers cannot be made either for some other obscure reason. Unlike your Gothic Florins where each die had a unique die number stamped under the center of Victoria's portrait, these Morgan dollars have no such numbers or mint markers.

These dollars are classified in such a manner that I rather doubt that anybody has much certainty as to what they are really looking at with regard to specific dies (if there are no die specific cracks or other field markers to set them apart from other dies). Many established markers are found in the devices, (eagle's wings or Liberty's hair) and are not necessarily die specific, but are quite possibly hub specific and may manifest themselves in several dies (but most folks don't seem to realize this). It is much easier to be told what to believe rather than to do the thinking on your own.

Since the vast number of dies used is staggering, and many of the dies may appear to be nearly or even exactly identical, there really is no way of identifying them, so a crude system of 'classifying' these dies according to certain similarities was adopted. This is basically an exercise in the use of smoke and mirrors, and has little basis in the reality of what die was actually used for a particular coin.

Some vams are die specific, but many are not, and folks are just now starting to wake up to the fact that maybe vam-14 (for instance) is actually comprised of three different reverse dies. The day that cracks are recognized as being die specific and little scratches in a device are not necessarily so, will be the day that the sun will begin to shine on vams.

Until then, you will need to come up with pictures showing various little details on other areas of your coin, as most folks do not have access to pictures of cracks to compare your description to.

Actually Gene, I have a great deal of "doubt about this". Without a picture of the coin, how can you say with such certainty which VAM this is?

the close up pics are of my coins... by the way....they show his original photo, but mine are close ups to expand the actual VAM 19 series,,,How can I be sure? I do have 2 of them....the first photos, clearly show the crack above the bonnet
"IF YOU LOOK"....... there is only one VAM that has this feature for 1887.......the description on which you all base your initial opinion . is based upon the written guess of his first post....the unseen cracks between the stars..............
then the pic came.....the die crack or displaced filed above the cap....IS THE ONLY KNOW.........VAM of this type.....PERIOD.. and you all can check if any other vams other than the 1887 VAM 19 series has this feature.........I am Not WRONG on this......but it is your opinion to disagree....its all good....If they post better pictures.. then you will see...if not now new photo's.. then you can examine the exibited photo's which already prove my point.....if you need more just ask......

This RichEsq1.

The die cracks with the stars looks exactly like the one Aladin reposted with his close up. The die crack connects the left stars and the right stars. My photo is on page 2. Alladin posted his close ups on page 3 to give us all a shot of what he thought I was talking about, and he's right.

Is the date also misplaced?

Is it common to have the stars cracked on two sides?

I don't know. I am new to this VAM stuff.

Would send a closer scan but not sure how to magnify it.

Is the date also misplaced?

Rich

what you all haven't realized, is that I have shown you the 1887 series for VAM 19a/b...........
I see your almost agreeing.. but your forgetting the details/////
His pictures were at the beggining post...with only the questions.......and no pictures..........its a flop......any body's guess,
BUT the FACT IS this coin has the die break over the Phytgarian cap
sorry spelling..........and if you have this coin !!you have some MINOR INSIGHT..........Cant believe I'm waisting so much time.
when you haven't seen the break over the cap............ITS
VAM 19
ALL THE WAY....................but I am ADD............Add a DRink I'm not Disfucntional.......

So Sorry Zee,,,
I TOTALLY missed the HIJACKing of anothers post...
My bad...Pic's are needed for the originators coin....