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Large Cent Varieties

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 Posted 10/08/2010  9:20 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add dumprat to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I just bought 7 Large Cents ranging from 1838 to 1853. I don't have any idea on variety hunting. Is there any good website that lists them with descriptions/pics or do I have to buy a book?

I will probably be taking pics of the this weekend just to have you guys help me on grading, as these are the first ones I have bought.

Any help would be appreciated.
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fioti's Avatar
United States
4212 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2010  10:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fioti to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2010  8:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You will pretty much have to buy the book. The differences on the late date varieties (1840 - 57) are frequently very small and do not show in photographs. Sometimes from date position you can narrow it down to a small group of varieties but it is difficult to be able to nail it down to one variety. The 1838 and 39 are a little easier but not by much. Even with the books it can take a fair amount of practice to be able to attribute the late dates. On the upside the late dates still have a large number of unattribued pieces out there which makes it easier to cherr rare varieties. Cherrying is harder but possible on th middle dates, but much more difficult on the early dates. They have just been picked over for so long.
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United States
460 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2010  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dumprat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks. I am finally getting used to VAMs but I have a lot more Morgans then large cents. Guess I will not worry that much about looking for varieties right now. Maybe down the road after I finish my other collections I am working on.
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robbudo's Avatar
United States
2757 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2010  12:42 am  Show Profile   Check robbudo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add robbudo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm just getting into large cents myself. I picked up United States Copper Cents by HR Newcomb, and readily see what you were talking about regarding the difficulty and subtlety of the late date varieties.

Any other books to use in concert with this one?



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vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2010  12:47 am  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tom Reynolds has some great reference books and Large Cents for sale!
http://www.earlycoppers.com/ReferenceBooks.htm
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2010  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For the late dates the book you want is The Die Varieties of United States Large Cents 1840 - 1857 by J are Grellman.

Tom Reynolds has it at $135, but you can get it from Grellman (autographed if you wish) for $100. Just ask if you want the address to order it from.

Personally I think the Newcomb book is interest in from the point of view to see what we used to have to use for attributing the large cents, and it can still be used fairly well for the middle dates, but it has been greatly superseded by either Bill Noyes or John Wright's books on the middle dates, and by Grellman's book on the late dates. Normally I recommend that people save their money and not buy the Newcomb book unless they just want it from a bibliophile standpoint.

For the early dates you have three choices Sheldon's Penny Whimsy, Bill Noyes book on the early dates and Walter Breen's Encyclopedia on the early dates. Each of them have strong points that recommend them Penny Whimsy is still a very good book, easily readable and it does a good job. It's cheaper than the other two, but doesn't have all the new discoveries since 1958. Just don't get the 1990 edition, It has the advantage of having all the new discoveries in it but all the plates are horrible and almost completely unusable. The Noyes book is excellent, and has the best pictures or the three books. Much of the text is also lifted from the Sheldon book which makes it a good read. The downside is that it is expensive and it can't be bought separately. It is only sold bundled with his middle date book. (The Middle date book can be bought separately) The cost for the pair is $240 (Costly but it does cover twos series, early and middle dates, and the middle date book for either Noyes or Wright will cost you $100 by itself.). The Breen book is very good and has the advantage for those who want to know more or containing a tremendous amount of information about how the cents were made, planchet deliveries, coin deliveries etc etc etc. Great from a historical or technical standpoint. The images are large clear for the most part, but not as nice as the ones in Noyes. Breen will cost more than Sheldon, but less than Noyes. Somewhere in the $75 to $100 range.
Edited by Conder101
10/19/2010 2:01 pm
Valued Member
United States
460 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2010  5:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dumprat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all the info. It looks like the early copper will be challenging so I am looking forward to it. I thinking by the first of the year is when I will start the large cents so I do have time to compare these books beforehand.

Thanks again

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insideout's Avatar
United States
591 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2010  6:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add insideout to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm having issues getting the photos to load off the coin facts sheet anyone else have that issue? Was looking at the 1833
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2010  09:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Are you having problems with other years as well or just 1833? If it is just 1833 I think the problem is that the images of the 1833's were provided by John Wright and he probably withdrew his permission for their use. Yes I checked some other years and it appears that every image that was supplied by John Wright is now gone (This is on the free version of coinfacts I don't know about the paid version.) Unfortunately John is THE specialist on the middle dates and he provided a LOT of the middle date images.
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robbudo's Avatar
United States
2757 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2010  11:41 am  Show Profile   Check robbudo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add robbudo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Conder101, thanks for that detailed response up there. I found the Newcomb book for $20 and couldn't resist. Just found Grellman's address so I'll be sending him the $100 and picking up that resource. Recently came across a large cent I picked up years ago as part of my rotated coin collection that has a Grellman card with it - didn't know what it was when I got the coin, but I sure do now.
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