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 Replies: 319 / Views: 63,914 |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
That's an interesting mishmash, Santa. The site was updated yesterday.... Now have over 225 Fakes to view. I added the weight to the ones I could, and also organised them by Reverse design. This meant renaming and resorting them all, BUT I left a link to the old page (and left all the old images) as they're referenced and linked in some places. http://ukfakeanderrorcoins.50webs.com/index.htmThe new pages are already paying off... found a pair (same day) with matched dies (First two pics.. notice the die clash on the first pic!) Then found another from the same dies thanks to the new pages.    Notice the blob just off-center, and also the small S The small S is seen elsewhere as well. Edited by Red
05/09/2014 1:18 pm
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
188 Posts |
@ RED, all really interesting! How accurate is your weighing device? Curious that your MILLENIUM4 came up as 9.7g though other examples you have from that series, apparently from the Dutch fakers, are correct weight. You would think their planchets would be pretty consistent. Also, those I have found I reckoned to be about 2% thinner than genuine, with a whisker more in circumference that I think would not compensate. I'm wondering if the four edge motto series exemplified by FLAX1, FLAX2, LIONS5 and LIONS30 are made of the same blanks, if not by the same maker (having inspected several for real). The edge mottos of FLAX2 and LIONS5 in particular both look inscribed in a similar way. A coin apparently of the FLAX2 series was the subject of the Gagg and Lewis journal paper, 2006 ( http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...EIT&f=false) which noted that its size and composition were so accurate, no existing machine could filter this type out. The DECUS... series pictured in your last comment is still apparently the most numerous series ever made (strongly linking it to at least one famous forger). I have found what appear to be 3 master edge engravings: (i) the commonest has the 'S' in DECUS only slightly smaller than in the bona fide "DECUS" of recent years; (ii) less common, the S is much smaller but symmetrical; (iii) rarest of all is this one: https://goccf.com/t/154381 One I found was clearly from same stable as (i) and (ii). Anybody concur, or is there a further distinct variant out there? Interesting how fakers have variously got the planchets right, or the faces pretty darn good but the planchets and edging wrong, or edge engraving good but other giveaways. It seems nobody ever achieved a 'perfect combination' which would be distinguishable only by grainy face texture (from spark-erode imaging) in relatively young coins. |
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1064 Posts |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
I've never really studied them for comparisons/die similarities to be honest. It's certainly something for me to look at. As for my scales, they're jewellers precision scales (£80 back in the day) but a) are about 15 yrs old now and b) are only accurate to .1g I re-weighed Millenium4 and is definitely pushing very close to 9.7 Also checked with my calipers and the diameter and thickness are consistant with the others but the feel and look is different so must be a different metal composition That's a lovely 'fake' Augsburger... but I'm wondering what happened as it sold for £36 as per http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191149591329 last monday. Non-Payer or Shill-bidding :-/ |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
188 Posts |
Hi RED, augsburger. The seller told me that buyer defaulted.
RED, close comparisons of the edges will also show a number of your Possibles are fake. E.g. POSSA is from same series as FLAX1, FLAX4 and others with that distinctive squarish 'U' in 'DECUS'. (I don't mean to crowd out discussion of genuine coins, but as a New Member I'm still blocked from messaging other members privately).
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
Good article relevant to this topic: http://news.coinupdate.com/new-prop...vealed-3197/For an advanced country, I find the estimates of circulating £1 counterfeits in the UK being in the 2 to almost 4% range appalling. The chances of being caught and punished obviously must not be high enough. Colligo ergo sum
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
837 Posts |
I got fake pound with the 1994 reverse design !  I am so excited  , the funny thing was my intuition kept telling me to go to an out of the way Co-op and I did and it paid off  I am so glad I adhered to the lyrics of Jewel`s song -Intuition ! What a way to round off an interesting day .... Interestingly enough my last 3 fakes have all come from small shops, the large supermarket has dried up yet 18 months ago it was the other way round.  Change of tactics are in order. Once I calm down from my excitement I will upload some pictures of the coin . The only designs I now need as fakes are the Welsh dragon, Egyptian Arch bridge and hopefully a lead fake. At this point I doubt I will get the 1986/1991 reverse design and it will be impossible to get a 1988 reverse fake......but thats another story  |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
837 Posts |
After finally calming down from my excitement ...   The obverse and the reverse aligned almost perfectly. It looks a bit different from the ones listed on RED`s website so I wonder if it was made from a different die or by a different gang ....  |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
188 Posts |
DaytR, is the edge similar to any of RED's FLAX1, FLAX2, LIONS5 or LIONS30 as I remarked on above? Does the metal look as good as the real thing? Now here's some interesting news: http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2014-...ake-1-coins/Quote:
North Wales Police welcomes the sentence handed down to Cockill. We will not tolerate such serious offences and will do all we can to bring such offenders to justice.
We worked closely with expert officers from the National Counterfeit Currency Unit at the National Crime Agency on this case and although the counterfeit coins were of a high quality, they were identifiable as counterfeit.
The design on the edge of the coin was ill defined and off centre.
â€" DC Deborah Jenkins, North Wales Police
Leaving aside what crimes it is they do tolerate  and whether we would hear about counterfeits that weren't identifiable  , which coins are these with those edge properties as described? The edge description fits some of the Onel 'Dutch' fake Bridges £1 we seem to have identified, but would any of them have made it in bulk to that part of the country? Also would Coinstar machines have been fooled as they seem to have generally been the wrong thickness, at least? I'm also wondering whether, since in 2008 the highest incidence of fakes was in Northern Ireland, there was a major source there, whether it was ever broken up, and whether the fakes in this latest report originated there. The only fairly recent arrest story there I've seen is this: http://destinationnewry.com/fake-po...coin-charge/ (2012). |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
837 Posts |
Hi moralclimate
Interesting article in the link ,I have to say I was intrigued by your revelation that Northern Ireland tops the number of fakes ! That is really interesting stuff ...
Regarding the fake - the edge lettering is similar to the middle Lion fake and the Flax plant fake that is second from the left (I used the pictures shown on the redesigned fakes pages on RED`s website not the old page that had all fake pounds in one page)
Yes the metal looks almost if not as good as the real thing, its funny you bring this up because all the fakes I have look this way so the alloy used must be close enough to the real thing to pass off ....
Edited by DaytR
05/24/2014 3:06 pm
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
188 Posts |
The Northern Ireland thing was true for 2008 (figures released in 2009) but the regional 'league table' has changed from year to year. I think the figures for many years have been published in FOI papers.
The four 'series' with the edge motto examples I gave appear to be made of a very faithful alloy, at least colour-wise. Yours could well be of the same series as that discussed by Gagg and Lewis as being high quality nickel-brass and undetectable by machine, the alloy is so good.
In contrast, for example, all the 'new dies' series I have seen appear to have used a binary brass (Robert Matthews' website discusses older binary brass fakes); whereas the commonest soapy "DECUS..." series and commonest soapy Bridges series have often had an overly yellow (and/or overly whitish) hue and never looked 'right' to me in colour, at least while in a fairly young state.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
4208 Posts |
Heres a couple of pictures, including a Welsh dragon, common in my area, I've seen 3 now, this is the latest die state, but I saw one the other day that was just about regular looking, so I think they start off like that but deform as they are used.   |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
188 Posts |
@ Ben, they all look like 'old dies' series coins rather than the 'new dies' as discussed/defined on page 9 of this thread, though can't really see enough of the Menai Bridge one. The Dragon appears to be an 'accurate nickel brass', made circa 2000, the Celtic Cross made circa 2005 in the commonest DECUS series/super-series with a more yellow-tinged brass. Your first picture captures this colour difference well.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
So is this a counterfeit 1 pound coin? I got it in change, but I already got rid of it. The lettering just looks "mushy" to me.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
837 Posts |
Hi Archraz
If the lettering looks mushy then there is a real possibility its a fake, also judging by your picture the color of the coin looks a bit odd too ....
I am leaning on it being a fake. I am fascinated...did you get it in a convenience store or supermarket or a garage ?
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Replies: 319 / Views: 63,914 |
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Posted 05/10/2014 6:29 pm
