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Replies: 5,643 / Views: 459,532 |
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Valued Member
United States
329 Posts |
"Gold miners have for years have not been reporting exactly their costs for mining."
Care to elaborate on that?
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Valued Member
United States
329 Posts |
The selloff occurred after roll over to the next contract, so I wouldn't expect a bounce. May silver is the thing to watch.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
815 Posts |
Gonna pull the trigger on my first tube!
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Valued Member
United States
329 Posts |
The worst thing you can get is a big bounce. The best thing is that gold trades sideways and builds a base.
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Valued Member
Canada
78 Posts |
Yup, Quantitave easing has an unintended consequence of boosting certain commodity assests over time, exact amount nobody knows for sure....but the effects do trickle down to commodities. QE effectively lowers long term interest rates (nobody can argue this point - fact), QE is last resort measure when governments have exhausted first option of lowering short term interest rates as much as possible...alot of different entities that rely on higher interest rates to pay obligations (say for example pension fund that needs a certain % return) look elsewhere to make that returns. They may invest money in riskier assests then they want too because the near riskfree rate of return is so low. Slowly trickles down.
I agree with you on copper...but based on supply should it even be 3.30 a pound?
Look at oil..was what 95 dollars a barrel last week..should it be that price in US when supplies are at over a 20 YEAR HIGH and US can't by law export this land locked oil...or instead of 70 dollar oil is oil way higher because huge funds are getting money at near zero and buying wild amounts of contracts daily?
Quantitive easing along with short term interest rates..is helping this BS to happen...people with money want some kind of return. Some of this money is going into riskier stuff then it maybe shoudl be.
Yup...you say that US economy is so rosy. The fact that US is still doing QE...this many rounds just shows a person how rosy it is. Before the financial crisis...did you forsee US having near zero interest rates for so long plus using a last resort tool created by the Japanese (yes Japan was first to use QE to try combat deflation)?
If you asked any sensible person in 2007, and described a county that has 8% unemployment (probably higher if count people looking and gave up), huge gov deficits, zero interest rates, and QE...that person would call that economy a disaster!
Now we all think QE is normal...zero interest rates are normal...and line ups at soup kitchen are normal.
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Valued Member
United States
329 Posts |
QE will only end upon the issuance of new money. There is no practical way to remove it. The only way it works is if it can stimulate growth in excess of its cost and thus becomes self liquidating. In that regard its a miserable failure. As we have added more QE we have actually received less growth. The law of diminishing returns. The Fed is caught in a quandry because they have the responsibility of maintaining the low rates and t the same time encouraging risk taking. Unfortunately for them, thats a free market phenomenom.
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Valued Member
Canada
78 Posts |
wjl...excellent post...that is it in a nutshell.
I am not a crazy goldbug that thinks world is crashing....but people need to wake up...not smooth sailing in future...alot of gremlins ahead.
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Valued Member
United States
329 Posts |
"I agree with you on copper...but based on supply should it even be 3.30 a pound?"
No based on demand. Its well known the Chinese and Koreans stockpile many base metals, particularly copper. The only way they can win the currency war is by domesticly sourcing what they need.
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Valued Member
United States
329 Posts |
I am not a crazy goldbug that thinks world is crashing....but people need to wake up...not smooth sailing in future...alot of gremlins ahead.
I blame the media. Somehow the media has convinced people that the only way to profit is by collapse, which is of course nonsensical. The lesson you can take away from Cyprus is that the perhaps better thing to do is hold gold in the system and hold your cash outside the system. Gold is really a hedge vs. default. It cannot default as it makes no promise. No promise, no default. If consumers and businesses or banks default then that means there is a shortage of cash, not gold.
Further, it stems from the difference and misunderstanding regarding fiat currency and a debt based currency. Fiat currencies are actually better.
Edited by wjl 04/16/2013 7:39 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3789 Posts |
well that was a fade today. If you are playing along at home, you can see today both SLV and GLD failed to make higher highs. as far as what direction we go in the short term, that will be decided by time, days, weeks, months.
again the scenario going forward are of a range in terms of price which in time resolves itself, as of which we remain in a downtrend. Trying to predict what and where happens is a fools game. I will say tho, if you are looking for higher prices in the short term, that will take a lot of work to happen.
Everything is a process in markets and it will be the same with determining when the selling is done and where silver and gold find their footing and change their trends, but for now the path of least resistance is down.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3789 Posts |
well that was a fade today. If you are playing along at home, you can see today both SLV and GLD failed to make higher highs. as far as what direction we go in the short term, that will be decided by time, days, weeks, months.
again the scenario going forward are of a range in terms of price which in time resolves itself, as of which we remain in a downtrend. Trying to predict what and where happens is a fools game. I will say tho, if you are looking for higher prices in the short term, that will take a lot of work to happen.
Everything is a process in markets and it will be the same with determining when the selling is done and where silver and gold find their footing and change their trends, but for now the path of least resistance is down.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3789 Posts |
@allspice
yes, QE has been limited in what it has been able to accomplish. Some assets rose but not all. Commodity prices never reached their high pre 08 levels, in fact every successive wave of QE did less and less for the commodity market, with only a handful of commodities actually going higher. The Fed carried out and,, and successfully accomplished their mission with QE. Things ARE getting better slowly but surely, there's no doubting that, we are and have been in an economic recovery.
I think going forward there will be less and less QE and that's one big reason gold and silver have come down, remember the market is a discounting mechanism that works months in advance. That's why I don't feel silver and gold are going to zero, they are just under going a repricing.
Yes, the world has a lot of uncertainty to it. there can be hot spots all over the world. Sure, countries will have their economic problems. There's flare ups everywhere. But does this mean gold and silver rise? No. The past few months have shown this.
SO what gets the price up? For that to happen we need institutional investors and funds to show up. They are the market makers and movers, not the public. Without them, without their steady accumulation prices will NOT rise. The volume you see, its been institutional selling, liquidation and its been heavy serious volume... its shown that they are distributing their positions , selling out.
So again, without heavy duty steady buying, gold and silver will keep going down until the selling stops and then where it goes after it stops, is any ones guess.
Predicting an actual price of silver, gold (or any other asset such as stock prices) is a fools game. Calling tops and bottoms is a fools game. Over the years I wish I had a nickel for every single prediction that was made, they are always wrong. In FACT, if its predicted, it never happens.
How do I feel about gold and silver? I think they are coming down and further to fall. I don't think tho that they will go to zero and I don't think that their run is over for good. Just now gold and silver, going forward, money is leaving, its rotating out and going into other areas. When will silver and gold come back? I have no clue, there's nothing to say that in 6 months they start to recover... and there's nothing to say that they stay stagnant for a decade. We just don't know.
That said, the MARKET doesn't care what I feel, and really what matters to me is that I am following the right trend and its direction. Nothing else matters to me. I am a trend and momentum trader and that's what pays me. For the time being, the trend is clearly down and I am making my profits with the declines in silver and gold. ... and yes, while I have been selling gold and silver short, I am still very long gold.
... and so yes,, as you say in your last sentence, the wisest thing for now is to watch the market and follow what it wants to do, if it wants to continue lower let it trend lower. When its ready to change, you will see it, you will notice more buying than selling, you will see volume that favors buyers.... and as I have been saying, if you must buy up here at these levels, then nibble and go slow. I cant imagine anyone being happy buying when silver was at 27 thinking they got a good deal and NOW look where its at. I mean really,,, I am sure silently many have regrets even if they don't want to acknowledge it publicly.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3789 Posts |
@Kraven-
My friend, There's a couple wrong assumptions you are making-
1- Commodity markets run on one simple function- supply and demand. Nothing more and nothing less. You can come at me with this and that and so and so and such and such... and its all noise to me and fellow traders. All we care about,,, all the market participants care about- is the price rising, going lower, or in some range.... and that leads me to point 2
2- You and anyone else, myself included... cannot conclude and say something is priced to high or too low. You mention copper. Quite honestly, I don't CARE what the price is. Its not my business if its 3 dollars a pound. You forget that the market is made up of many participants- sellers, buyers, those who are hedging, those who are actually using the product and many other speculators. the market is way to HUGE for you or I to give our opinion what it should be.
There are way toooo many factors that are involved in commodity prices for you to say why prices shouldn't be lower. its too HUGE to know exactly each and every factor. That's the trap with formulating opinions and why only trends and price pays. We can say what we want about a commodity but if its going contrary to your opinion, guess who's wrong. YOU are. (btw, thats not a dig at you, the "you" as in a general sense)
3- QE is the best option out there and central banks should be applauded for their efforts to not let things go into utter financial destruction. What would you wish? That everyone suffers economically? That we have a financial doom that wipes everyone out? Guess what, if we get that, no silver or gold will help you out. You are on your own.
4- The economy is getting better. The US is getting better. I see it every day in the markets. Its not perfect. But you must be a very negative doom and gloom person, because a lot of positive economic things have been happening in the USA and its not soup kitchens. Perhaps the facts are hard to understand and grasp about the recovery but its happenings, its real and those who dare to challenge it will be the ones in the minority going forward.
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Valued Member
Canada
470 Posts |
@ yup7676
Arrogant,dellusional,plebian,drivel point of view.
Starting to come off as aN AMERICAN paper silver TRADER,in a drollish kind of way.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
Yup has made some strong points on many issues but rosey us economy come on man you got blinders on that point atleast...
Explain 16 trillion with a T debt as rosey please?
Just a matter of time til they run out of debt bouncing tactics and the entire house of cards comes crashing down....
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Replies: 5,643 / Views: 459,532 |
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