New... Dan Carr 1964 Morgan Dollars!

Ok, Lets try this scenario
"What If" a 10year old child was playing with a loaded handgun, he hasn't pulled the trigger yet but "What If" he did.
Would you still supply the child a handgun ?

The Extra Leaf high / low varieties of the Wisconsin State Quarter were sabotage deliberately inflicted on dies by a Mint employee, not genuine errors; sabotage with the explicit intent to create an artificial scarcity for financial gain. They have done a great deal of damage to the hobby, financially and ethically, and have resulted in enormous profits for TPG's and those who were "in the know." However, I have yet to see anyone up in arms with righteous indignation preaching doom and gloom from the numismatic pulpit. Apparently, only some things which we think harm our hobby are cause for a crusade.

A hundred thousand Chinese counterfeits per day, and we as a hobby in general blame the victims and tell ourselves "oh, that's a shame, someone should DO something!" and get back on with whatever it was that was at hand; one man makes their merest fraction in fantasy restrikes, coins which a rank novice could identify as fantasy issues with a Google search and 15 seconds of time, coins which have done no harm to the hobby, coins which could not possibly be confused with real issues -- one man, and it's off with his head, wrack and ruin, the imminent death of numismatics as we know it, a grave threat to the future of the hobby, ...every other dire prophecy.

I wish I had gotten some of those proof-likes...

I have some thoughts/questions/opinions in no particular order of importance:

- While reading all of the posts, I saw "semantics" come up several times in a way suggesting it's not important. In this format of discussion, I disagree, as that is the only way of determining the poster's intentions/feelings. On this note, there needs to be clarification of the difference between overstrikes and restrikes as they seem to have been used interchangeably, but I understand them to be different.

- Concerning the "art" side of the discussion, I have a question. I appreciate an actual former U.S. Mint press being used (@Earle ), but how are the dies created? From what I've seen on Moonlight Mint and Designs Computed, it could be as simple as uploading a high quality image of a genuine Morgan dollar, adjusting the 3D embossing to recreate the same specs (altering the date with an image from a 1964 Kennedy, maybe...) and sending that to your CNC or maybe it's more high-tech and you use a laser scanner instead of an image. I'm not picturing any hand-engraving going on.

If that's the case, then I don't see the art. I see modern technology allowing the creation of something that would have been umpteenth times more difficult to achieve even two or three decades ago.

-

It most certainly is not. Concerning Bach and Mozart and all of their cohorts, there is nothing tangible to imitate in performance. If you have a coin from the 1700s, you can imitate it. You cannot imitate an original performance of Baroque or Classical music because there is no reference (or anything in this area before sound recording existed). You have to "read the blueprints" and make up your own mind.

- Deception: These issues (1964 Morgan dollar) are lacking in any hallmark. Even official art prints mentioned before are only worth anything because they are hand-signed & numbered by the original artist. I'm personally skeptical of someone who claims to be creating "art" and is unwilling to put their name to it (in a tangible way: altered date is not a signature). I think a signature would detract from the design but that's the price that comes with piggy-backing someone else's design (George Morgan).

This sounds really silly. Seriously.

I might have drank a beer today out of an altered rain gutter can today too. Can you grab me a rain gutter of beer while you're in the kitchen? Sounds silly right? You know why? Because what the can used to be is completely irrelevant.

The difference in the two is quite obvious. Like dcarr's pieces I can't tell what the can used to to be.

The nail dime has no business in this conversation.

I used a loaded gun in my "What If" scenario for obvious reasons.
These Dan Carr offerings Are a "loaded gun" and they do have the potential to harm collectors.

A Magicians coin and a D Carr coin are two completely different things and have very little relevance in this discussion and referring to the D Carr coins as "Altered" is BS because the design on the original coin is completely obliterated Not "Altered".

Why are all these "Red Herrings" being brought into this discussion?
Maybe it is because the "Pro's" in this discussion are loosing traction and are realising that a pro stance on the D Carr offerings is becoming untenable.

Come-on people.
We have had mint sport nails now Magicians coins and what's with all the different colours in the reply's?
It makes the discussion look like one of those annoying ebay listings
What's next on the agenda I can hardly wait

This is your quote not mine, Maybe you should think about this

I constantly do - which is why I use post data for evaluation instead of just making a statement and wanting people to accept it.

Until the red and blue points mentioned are shown through logic to be in error, and therefore the comparison I made invalid, your opinion's validity is obviously questionable.

If I said, "I am correct b/c I am" with nothing to back it up, you most certainly would be asking me for validity.


And as much as I like you and respect your opinions, I still don't think if I was explaining the point to someone else that saying "its so b/c my friend Trout says so" will work too well.