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 Replies: 26 / Views: 3,194 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
I believe that's a case of "gorgeous" truly being in the eye of the beholder! :-> ... Ponterio, Apr. 2008 (CICF auction, lot 279).
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Quote:
From TwoKopeiki (in the other thread):
Just a small update on the 1815 vs 1813 coin linked above. NGC took a few weeks investigating the coin and having it looked at by their independent expert. It ended-up being slabbed as 1813, which I still dont completely agree with. At least they were in-line with what my grade opinion was - XF45. Kopeiki, an 1813 would of course be better... but the more I look at the other example coins, it really has to be 1815, doesn't it? When they're all viewed together, the multiple matching die markers I think speak for themselves... It drives me nuts when the grading companies do this... You see a basic errors on cobs, for example... But geez, in this case, they sent the coin out to a field-specific "expert". I'd love to hear the rationale for what he came up with... As far as grade... There's no debating it's a gorgeous piece with little wear. Wouldn't have been shocking (to me at least) to see it make 50, depending on what it looks like in hand.  |
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Pillar of the Community
 Czech Republic
803 Posts |
I am surprised that after an independent review by an expert they still attributed it as 1813. I agree that it looks more like a 15 when comparing to other examples.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
651 Posts |
the date questionable digit looks more like a 5 than a 3. The 3 of that period is more "bulbous" or fat bottomed, and this coin's digit doesn't look it or has that characteristic. The digit is a very crude recut or carved 5.
I'm curious about the background of this particular coin since it looks so incredible. I can't recall seeing a crude strike this nice. Where has this one been hiding?
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Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
I am surprised that after an independent review by an expert they still attributed it as 1813. I agree that it looks more like a 15 when comparing to other examples.
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
Is it possible to discuss with them, or is it their last call ?
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Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
I could build a case for it, email the information I've gathered plus any additional supporting information, like the link to this thread, to the NGC grader, pay another $50 for shipping both ways to Canada, which combined with the original grading fee and shipping would put my expenses on this coin at over $150, wait another 3-4 weeks for the decision on a regrade...
I don't know if I want to go through that just yet. When I decide to sell, I will either get it re-attributed or disclose my opinion of the grade in the description of the lot. The only reason that would prompt me now to re-grade would be acquiring another 1813 and wanting to fill the 1815 registry slot.
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
Ouch, a good reason to wait then :D
NGC don't have any office / representative in Canada ?
I know they recently opened in France with some partners (if I remember well they ship the coins to London) - it takes more time but it's safer than sending the coins abroad.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Nice to be forced to pay extra and go through a hassle to get a high-end company to actually get it right, eh? This thread's brief, basic archive search attributes the date pretty conclusively, I feel. Iif a couple of chooches on a web forum could do it, why can't they? Maybe they don't have internet access at the NGC offices? And I don't even know what to offer regarding their Mexican "expert"... maybe they didn't feed him well enough? Maybe this would be something you could bring up with a rep if you attend a show NGC has a table at? Also, sorry if you mentioned this already, but when you submitted, did you note a date suggestion/opinion?  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
If it were my coin, I would just send high end scans to Dunigan, Ponterio and maybe one other well known Mexican coin dealer (Richard Long or Paul Brombal come to mind)and ask their opinion. Forget the $50 and 3-4 week wait. Those are likely the guys NGC is going to confer with anyway.
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Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
Haha, love the Mexican Cat photo!
I will definitely bring this up with NGC reps when I go to NYINC in January. Also, my submission for this stated in the "Special Instructions" section: Not sure if the date is 1813 or 1815. Matched in Calbeto to 1815 bust, but the last digit appears to be a 3.
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
This sums it all for me - I don't like this slab craze join on in the US ...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Quote:
Those are likely the guys NGC is going to confer with anyway. Exactly... which makes you wonder which one of them didn't try very hard on this one. One of those names had a nice cob in his showcase at a show which obviously had some sort of lacquer-like coating on it. I pointed this out, and got an immediate "no...". Then he took a second to actually look at it... Eyes can be wonderful useful organs. Quote:
This sums it all for me - I don't like this slab craze join on in the US... Think about that next time you post a raw ebay purchase where you ask "I'm not sure if this is genuine or not".... Aside from grade/authenticity assurance, slabbing has spawned the registry set craze (right, Kopeiki? :-> )... which the coin industry love, love, LOVES as it drives the prices via semi-emotional collecting. Also, it serves to somewhat commoditize items for insurance purposes, estate concerns, theft recovery, investment use, etc. It's not for everything and every coin, and some people go crazy with it... but it has its place. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
651 Posts |
 Yay, I'm a cooch. Mexican numismatics is so under appreciated by the TPGs. Just tell them it's an American coin and it has MS 70 details. |
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
realeswatcher : I don't buy from ebay only ... I get low priced coins there, sometime higher ones, sometime good deals, sometime fake stuffs (which I return if I find it out soon enough - with your / others help or with the knowledge I learned) - and I have some dealers I like to buy coins from. I also like renowned action houses (ha.com, stacks, aureo&calico, sedwick, numismatik lanz, soler y llach, cayon ... ) - depends on what I'm looking for and what the opportunities are (and the budget, as well). Slabs is a nice marketing stuff - certified what the coin is (or should be) and hence gives it a value - helps for insurances if you are in the high-end coins (I don't see myself slabing all my coins, which range from a few euros to a few hundred ones ...) I know some like it and collect slabs only, and some other like me don't like this (mostly for the artificial market price increase). It has its use on the high end though - I have to admit ... but it has its side effect - compare the price of MS62 to MS64 coins ... OK, I'll stop bashing those ;) And someday, I'll break my only slabbed coin out of his box :D |
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Posted 11/14/2011 8:29 pm
