My New Rare NGC Graded 1830/20 MO Jm 8 Reales

Knowing what you collect, I would imagine that one is a fake ? :D
But only imagine, I don't know this type enough ...

If you notice at the edge near the 2 in the legend from the cap side and between the N and A on the eagle side is an edge test cut made with a SAW. The saw teeth marks are exceptionally clear. That should have disqualified this coin from being graded.

The coin also has NO EDGE markings and it is related to a Riddell die. The coin itself is heavily debased silver and the streak is often seen on period forgeries. So it should have been BODY BAGGED.

I checked the details under a microscope and there are a MYRIAD of errors on this one. But one thing it absolutelky does NOT have is an overdate of any sort at all.

Sounds like a substitution or a forged slab but you can check the NGC website and the coin is one and the same that they slabbed.

This example proves to me that NGC is WORTHLESS as far as authentication goes and grading of foreign coins goes. An authenticator would have to be BLIND to miss this one. It was a shock when I first saw it.

This is by far the worst example of a forgery being encapsulated by a TPG that I have ever seen.

Of course I have one that may surpass this one that I am working on now.

RealPeso With no doubt whatsoever - you have far more expertise at this series than ANY grader at NGC.

This coin should be used as a wake up call for anyone who TRUSTS these hackers. Taking a fee for grading this coin was nothing less than robbery.

I don't know but they should not do their own - that's for sure.

snowman I talked to NGC about the other graded forgery but not this one. This one is a published contemporary counterfeit that has been known since 1845. For the other one - a modern fake of a Rupia from Portuguese India - they did not want to discuss the coin - they wanted it back to re-evaluate it. But that makes no sense to me. I like it better as is. They also would not let me talk to the actual graders or a grading supervisor. Only some staff person who just wanted it back to "correct" any error. That just means remove it from the holder. It also comes out of their data base so that "their reputation" is upheld.

I prefer keeping the proof intact. So I do not plan to call about this one. I want to publish it in my next book on counterfeit Cap and Ray 8Rs as a GRADED Counterfeit.

For me the real value (rarity) is in the holder and the fact they made a wopping mistake. I will NOT be returning any encapsulated counterfeits. Actually that would be fraud on my part since I knew what it was BEFORE I bought it. Profiteering on anothers mistake is something my grandfather always told me was very "low class." As a swamper I do have my own reputation to safeguard.

I spoke to ANACS when they graded a counterfeit too. There I got a lot better treatment and I got to speak to the graders and the head foreign grader.

What I discovered from ANACS was that the graders rarely took the time to look at the edge. Since I start with the edge that makes no sense to me. ANACS did not press me to get the coin back and the head of the department said he would advise all the graders to start looking.

But they get paid for what they do.

Detecting a forgery does not require absolute familiarity with every type of coin ever made. It does require being familiar with every form of counterfeiting however and a general familiarity with how mints make real coins. That is actually a thing that can be done. Once you can spot a counterfeit by HOW IT WAS MADE (the wrong way) you do not need to even know what the coin is supposed to be.

I think that is what most people fail to understand.

I can tell if a coin is reeded with a ring die - and since NO COUNTRY EVER DID THAT - the coin is fake no matter what it is supposed to be.

Perhaps for a specific die variety or to recognize a valuable mint mark you need that kind of familiarity but altered originals are in a different category entirely. There the best defense is to understand alteration methods and to know how to spot altered coins. In addition most key rarities have published photographs that can be of great help.

That's really interesting thanks for posting that.

I'm not a fan of slabs - thankfully they aren't often encountered here in Europe - though I can appreciate their conservative value for ultra high end coins. For me they change a coin from being something people in history used into a commodity entombed in plastic - so I don't own any.

And, of course, it's hard to shine your coins up with a brillo pad if they are locked away :)))

Very interesting thread--I wonder what other unauthentic world coins have been slabbed?
If someone is aware of this problem, it would be easy to slab fakes, and then pass them off to dealers.
I know dealers of world coins who don't know enough to get taken, buy these coins, and sell them back to collectors.
Then fakes may get hidden in collections for a very long time.