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 Replies: 17 / Views: 2,488 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
500 Posts |
I was once told that mistakes in ads are legally binding, in the context of a grocery store running an ad for bacon that says $5 but no quantity and that legally you could empty their shelf and only pay $5. I think that ridiculous but I do wonder what the laws dictate. Like if a company sends you something you didn't order you can supposedly keep it.
Or if the grocery store mis-labels something are they bound to honor it. I once found a chuckroast labelled like 32 cents. I pointed it out to the manager and he fixed it. But what I think happened is an employee INTENTIONALLY marked it low and their wife was going to come by and pick it up in the case and get a "bargain" - it was buried under legit priced ones. Some mistakes are not so innocent!
I'm not into cheating people, or being cheated, but it is a bit weird in the coin community as some legitimately sell some items at bargain prices and others try to gouge the newbies and couch it in this "whatever someone will pay"/suckers-deserve-it attitude.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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I'm not into cheating people, or being cheated, but it is a bit weird in the coin community as some legitimately sell some items at bargain prices and others try to gouge the newbies and couch it in this "whatever someone will pay"/suckers-deserve-it attitude. I dont see that as anything unique to the Coin World it is just amplified because of the amount of individuals that sell things. Youll see that in anything that has individuals privately selling items that they may or may not know anything about them. Pawn shops do that every day on all sorts of items. ebay has been a bit of an equalizer for private sellers since a quick search will tell you what most things goes for, though you cant sell everything there. You see this a lot with firearms too since you can really only sell them to stores. If you take the same gun to 5 different stores youll get a wide range of prices. Some will offer you the best they can and still make money, others offer a reasonable price, but theres always some stores that low ball you badly knowing you have to sell to a store and some people will take those offers |
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Valued Member
United States
108 Posts |
You ask the question as an ethical question rather than a legal one. Yet, you ask if the seller is "bound" to honor the sale. Since ethics are subjective to each individual's worldview, an answer either way would be plausibly correct (and therefore "ethical").
Ethics in business is a two way street. Ethics in any business transaction does not fall to only one party. Both parties are equally expected to act in an ethical manner. One part of business ethics is fairness. This "fairness" should be expected of all parties involved in the transaction.
The question should not be whether or not the seller should be "bound" to the transaction, but rather was the transaction ethical to begin with. In other words, did both parties act in all fairness in the transaction, regardless of any errors and omissions.
Ethically speaking, should a seller make concession when an E&O occurs? Likewise, should a buyer submit to such concessions? Should the buyer have the ethical responsibility to question the seller on any portion of the transaction that appears to be unconscionable? Should a contract be allowed to be grossly weighted to one side or the other? What if the E&O was of no fault to either party involved? (ie technical issues, data corruption, etc)
The basis of business ethics is fairness. There are unethical buyers just as there are unethical sellers. A balance in the overall transaction is what makes the transaction ethical. A grossly unbalanced contract can be termed as "unconscionable".
Now, this is where ethical and legal begin to mix, so I'll leave it at that.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
624 Posts |
The situation with the PCGS MS-65 1946D Liberty Walking Half ($32) mistake was really an issue on two fronts. Bob Paul Rare Coins made a couple of different decisions. First, they decided not to honor the sale price ($68) after the sale. Secondly, they said they would only honor the sale if I paid an additional $32. From a legal standpoint, I think I had a firm footing to demand they they completed the order at the original price. They were very firm on their decision to either get $32 dollars more, or to return the sale price. I didn't demand a completion to the transaction, because I honored their explaination that this was an honest mistake. As it turns out, that is a very plausable excuse. The coin got re-listed (for $110) and had the wrong TPG and description in the write-up. If they were going to get something right, you know it would have been on the re-list for a coin they'd already screwed-up with...?! The fact they didn't speaks volumes about their propencity to make mistakes. From an ethical standpoint, Bob Paul Rare Coins didn't do anything 'wrong'. I would suggest that as a business (that should rely on credibility) they made a mistake by not honoring their error. The mistake can be measured in both credibility (intangible) and lost reveue (tangible). They lost both credibility and additional business... because of Buffalos thread, the story played out to several other collectors who were interested in the stuff they had on their site. Because of the experience, I didn't spend $300 more on a couple of nice coins they had it listed and several others said they wouldn't do business with them. Edited by BamaBlue
05/30/2013 6:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3167 Posts |
Isn't that why they put something like...
"Not responsible for any typographical errors"
...on all of the ads you see now?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
561 Posts |
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You see this a lot with firearms too since you can really only sell them to stores Must suck to live where you live. In Ohio and many other states you can sell a firearm to anyone who is legally allowed to own one. There are even websites dedicated to facilitating the private transfer of firearms. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
561 Posts |
As for the ebay auction, a Buy-It-Now listing would be considered an "offer" and a bidder buying it would be considered "acceptance". Once paid for, the payment would be the "consideration" and wham-o you have what any court would consider a legally binding contract. Now, what really happens is a whole different story. Back when silver was close to $40/oz. I saw an average circulated Franklin half listed for $8.00 BIN with free shipping and snapped it up. The seller sent a note with the coin indicating that he had made an error on the listing and congratulated me on the great catch and good deal. I know it isn't the same as a few hundred dollar error but in my opinion if you can't be more careful with your listings you deserve to lose money. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
624 Posts |
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Isn't that why they put something like... "Not responsible for any typographical errors" This is different for a couple of reasons. First, when a company takes-out an ad with a newspaper, they are saying they're not accountable if the newspaper makes a 'typographical' error. Secondly, if an advertisement has a mistake from the source of the ad, they are protected, because they made an offer to sell, but announce they will not complete the transaction in the event of a mistake. So, the advertisement is merely an 'intent' to sell, not a commitment to sell. When a seller has their own website, they are responsible for the content. They have an offer on the item that constitutes their intent to sell with a purchase button as confirmation of transaction by the buyer. When you select and pay for an item (e.g., transaction through PayPal), the transaction is completed. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
561 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3167 Posts |
So if the same were to happen on say BestBuy.ca, then they would be obligated to sell you the item at the listed price?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
561 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
624 Posts |
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So if the same were to happen on say BestBuy.ca, then they would be obligated to sell you the item at the listed price?
Legally... (I'm not a lawyer) I believe yes. Ethically, they might be able to 'weasel' out of it and make it not worth the trouble of taking legal action. However, I feel confident that a business like Best Buy would not ask you to send more money to complete the transaction... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
899 Posts |
I buy on ebay all the time - and the seller can in fact clear an errant listing fairly easy. I've had it happen - all they need to do is send you a note indicating they either misplaced the item or found an issue with it and won't send it out in the condition it is in. Then refund your purchase - instantly. There is really little you can do at that point - since you no longer have a feedback button on the item - it is basically just gone. Sure you can complain to ebay - but what are you going to complain about exactly? |
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New Member
United States
23 Posts |
Since the OP was an "ethical" question, I would ask you to turn the tables for a moment...
What if in your panic driven state you hit a number twice while trying to seal the deal on that special coin during the last second or two of an auction. (ie. $2111 instead of $211)
Yes, amazingly to your surprise, you won the bid at only three times ($625) what you were willing to pay. (Hence, I never use the 1-click bid.)
As someone stated above, there is a time factor involved as well. The longer the mistake exists, the more valid the contract. If I immediately contact the seller and state the mis-type, I am quickly absolved of my indebtedness. If I were to wait a week to contact the seller, they may push the "contract" concept and create all kinds of misery for me.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
624 Posts |
This is a good discussion and all of us have had good/bad experiences with purchases. With full recognition that there are good and bad sellers, one important thing has always been true. In a transaction between two people, there is always a premium on integrity. Integrity for the buyer and for the seller means that you conduct the transaction in good faith. Everyone makes mistakes; the question is 'will the person who makes the mistake, stand by (take responsibility) for their mistake?' Good people/good businesses stand by their mistakes. They apoligize and they work to make it right as quickly as possible. Sellers who make mistakes, have to look at the goodwill that they created by satisfying customers. Buyers who make mistakes have to look at their decision to buy as a committment and not just a weakness of impulse that fades when reason creeps-in.
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Posted 05/30/2013 4:44 pm
