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1925 Mercury Dime. Die Clash?

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23522 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2013  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
BUT THE HUBS, THE DIE AND THE WORKERS WERE THERE AT THE MINT.


*sigh*

No. No, the hubs and dies were not there. Nobody's going to ban you, Carlos, but neither are we going to allow you to offer these ridiculous conjectures without being challenged. Too many people read these threads without ever posting, newcomers to numismatics for whom this is all information they've never heard before.

They might believe what you're saying, and start thinking their damaged coins are "errors" as well. This will not be tolerated.
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United States
142 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2014  3:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jcuve to your friends list
I have been photographing clashes and generating overlays for maddieclashes for several years now and I feel compelled to make a few comments (hopefully the Mods don't mind). Though in order to even discuss clashes at this point, we have to put aside: no half dollars were minted from 1924-27 (as noted); dies were defaced when their usefulness was finished, so no half dollar dies should have been available; dual denomination clashes were generated at one specific time, and was another era altogether; and finally the areas in question look like scratches. If I had seen that coin in front of me, I wouldn't have given it a second thought.

Now on to clashes: clash remnants observable on a struck coin are a mirror to the normal design. Below I will attach one of my overlays of dime. The opposing face's design is backwards. Thus one cannot place a coin on top of another coin and trace the image as the image would be oriented incorrectly. Next, clash remnants tend to be tied to high points of the design making contact with one another. High points on a die are low points on a struck coin. We see clashes in the fields and the details are typically incuse; raised points tend to be parts of the field around the design as opposed to the design itself. Rarely do clashed dies make contact from low points to low points. What you are showing has the lines crossing everything, in some cases equally, implying something impossible. another issue is that clashes are not close facsimiles. They are not similar. With the exception of some distortion from the dies striking one another, or accounting for some tilt, they are exact, not close. You showing straight lines that are supposed to somehow represent subtle curved design elements (or vice versa).

1925-Mercury-Dime.-Die-Clash?
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Canada
4911 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2014  3:37 pm  Show Profile   Check thedollarman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add thedollarman to your friends list
your coin could not be a clash because if the half dollar die hit the dime die it would leave a raised eagle image just like on a coin struck by the same half dollar die so in return it would leave a reverse incused image of the half dollars design on the struck dime. So what you're missing is the so called clash of yours has the image in the same facing direction which is impossible because altimately if it were a clash the eagle design would be facing the wrong way compared to a regular half dollar.
And I won't even start with the PMD side of the story.
Feel free to call me Will.
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 Posted 01/02/2014  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Check thedollarman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add thedollarman to your friends list
Let's say that some how a half dollar die hit a dime die,
If this were to happen the eagle design from the half dollar die would be raised on the dime die just like you see on a regular half, so when the dime die hit a planchet it would leave an incused and reversed image of the eagle.
Your coin could not possibly be a die clash mainly because the so called clash you see is facing the same way and is not incused.

Feel free to call me Will.
Edited by thedollarman
01/02/2014 7:37 pm
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Canada
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 Posted 01/02/2014  3:56 pm  Show Profile   Check thedollarman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add thedollarman to your friends list
Sorry about the multiple post I thought my tablet deleted the first one.
Feel free to call me Will.
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United States
1662 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2014  8:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ArrowsAndRays to your friends list
Still just PMD. No more, no less.
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 Posted 01/03/2014  5:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list
It took nearly 90 years to discover this?
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United States
136 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2014  2:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Carlos arriaga to your friends list
What ever. I'm 100% sure about two things. Those lines what you call scratches; are the pure expression of Mr. Weinman,(designer of dimes and Half dollars on those years); and second. Those lines were made from something coming through the dime in the "Z Axis" direction. No in the "Y"or "X" axis. About the 96 years. Everybody still looking from errors from the past. Thank again for your opinion.
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 Posted 01/04/2014  2:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Carlos arriaga to your friends list


1925-Mercury-Dime.-Die-Clash?
The big lesson I learned this week, was that, Mr Wienman did both coins designs. ( Mercury dime) and ( Walking Liberty half dollar). Then; there's a big relation between dimes and halfs.
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 Posted 01/04/2014  3:56 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list
Now you really have something Carlos, that's quite the coin and a 42/41 to boot !
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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United States
3453 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2014  9:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinsKelly to your friends list
Tell you what, if I were you and believed the way you do, I would send it in for authentication since every opinion here is opposite of what you believe. Actually, at this point, I wonder why continue to solicit opinions if you only want those that agree with you.
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621 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2014  12:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add justin3651 to your friends list
Coinskelly, mmmm, probably wouldn't do any good. It would just mean the TPG's are also wrong and don't know what they are talking about.
Seriously though, Carlos, respectfully, who or what would it take for you to consider that it might just be damage after all? people have given many reasons why it's IMPOSSIBLE for it to be a die clash like you think. what more would you require to change your mind (or even consider that it might not be what you think)?
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136 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2014  08:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Carlos arriaga to your friends list

The evidence for me is too notorious about there was a Multidenominational Die clash. Just this weekend I found another clue of the INCUSE LONGER LINES. For you, this is the end of the Judgment. For me it's the beginning of more layouts and careful investigation. HOW THAT'S HAPPEN? I don't know. 96 years a go everything was different to now. Thank any way for all your comments.
1925-Mercury-Dime.-Die-Clash?
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 Posted 01/07/2014  05:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
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23522 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2014  06:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
We're done here.
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