Money Where Your Mouth Is...

Coppercoins, I have now seen two of the finest posts ever written at Coin Community by you in this thread. You ought to publish that last one, except since it was here, Bobby owns it.

Copper coins, you should post this up as an ebay auction. That would get the most eyes on it and it would educate some of the people out there. I think ebay's listings are free for this month, so why not, right?

Nah, some knucklehead will buy them and start the snowball process all over again.

Jim....when you tell the same people the same thing over and over and over again, it tends to wear on you. I can tell someone here they have Machine Doubling, and they come back the next day with another example asking how much that one's worth. Then the next day with another. It's a simple matter of not having to learn anything because they have someone who knows at their constant beckon call.

Then enter into the picture someone who says because they see some uneducated dealer selling them or that they saw one sell one time on ebay they must have value, and for people who know what they are to say they have no value has to be wrong....saw it on the internet, it must be true.

Start out all you want saying if someone collects it that it must have value to them, well that's fine. Sentimental value isn't what 90% of the people who save coins are collecting them for. They are collecting coins for return on market value either by themselves immediately or later, or by their heirs after they are gone. Either way, if they are collecting hoards of coins that are worth nothing more than face value, they might as well save themselves the trouble and stick the money into an interest bearing savings account. At least then they will have something that's gaining value.

If you're going to ask someone who studies the market, knows the market, and can give realistic estimates of value not only now but also in the future, then expect an answer that when they have found something common and not collectible to the market that they have found something valueless.

If someone who knows the market tells someone else who doesn't that their coin doesn't warrant a premium, then tells them it's not of any value over face, then they have to tell them it's of no value, then they have to tell them it's garbage or junk coins (which is what a LOT of people call coins that have no numismatic value), then so be it. If they had listened in the first place, the terse response would not have been necessary to beat it in. It all boils down to having to expect the answer you're given if you ask the question.

This stuff is not difficult to learn, it's not difficult to even figure out. It's quite simple with a bit of education, a few books read, and a few questions to clear up an odd point here and there. Seeing the difference between Machine Doubling and a doubled die is VERY easy, yet that is THE most common problem people seem to have. With it known that doubled dies have value, if you think you've found six of them in a single roll of change, I would think you'd automatically figure you've probably not found any and that what you have is Machine Doubling because it is known to be very common.

Bck during a short stint of collecting stamps many years ago, I noticed that there were a number of sub-issues that changed value dramatically with specific shades of color. Not knowing the difference between lake red, carmine, and just red, I could look at a stamp and tell you which it probably was by the fact that two of them were $50 stamps and the one was a 10c stamp...well, these that you have are probably the 10c stamps if they are all the same and you have a number of them. Only makes sense. Scarce usually means that you don't find a group of identical scarce items in larger quantity than the common ones. Now...you might want to take one of them to an expert and ask to be sure, but you keep that one to compare others to. You don't toss the common one and go back to ask about the next one you see...only makes sense, to me anyway. Stamp dealers would have "junk" boxes of common stuff for you to pick through, as do coin dealers...and in 99% of cases what you see in those boxes is just that - junk.

Sometimes I really wonder why I waste my time, and now is one of those times.

Let me put it this way: One who has no concept of values, will never know they have lost something of value, even after it is gone! Those who know, and respect the desire to share with others, what they have learned over the years of deep study, and experience, arre thr ones who will suffer the loss. I am one of the latter. I think a day in which I didn't learn anything, is a day LOST! The day that Chuck departs from this forum, is the day that there will be others, who, also will look for those who love to teach, and share that which they have learned.
Dick

The problem here Chuck is you are the one attempting to put a value on every coin that to you is of value or no value. There are numerous individuals that do buy such coins as you discribed and not for an investment, but for fun, a hobby, something strage, to show others. Not to be critical of your statements, but that is always the one thing you bring up is the cost or value. Regardless of what someone asks such as what is this, you always bring up the monitary aspects. I know you have been in this buisness for a long,long time and considered to be one of our greatest experts, but I suspect you have lost the enjoyment of just collecting coins for FUN. On your forum I have asked a simple question in the past and the first thing for an answer is always, no value or low value. Many, many people collect coins for other than value, resale, get rich, etc. Myself, I could care less what a coin is worth. I am not a dealer, will never be one, will never sell a coin, so why should there always be this value thing tacked on to every question. I have both your books and know you are indeed an expert in the field of many coins. It is your buisness so naturally you place a buisness type lable on every coin. Don't know if you ever collected for FUN, but if you did, try to remember what that was like.
The coins you discribe are always at coin shows around here and they do sell for a dollar or so. Many, many people of all ages buy them and not so someday they will have a coin worth thousands, but to show someone, give to someone or just to have one. It is called FUN. Millions of us do that. No value concerns, no ulcers, no nervousness, just FUN.

Not meaning to drag out this topic, but I think what Jim1953 was attempting to point out is exactly what I was saying. Discribing what some like as a hobby, collection or just having it for FUN is not worth the trouble, shows you've lost that thing many,many of us have called FUN and ENJOYMENT. You stated that 90% collect coins for a monitary purpose. I know many, many coin collectors and as far as I know, none, NONE worry about the future value. Of course I'm rather on the old side and so are most of the people I refer to so a future value on a coin is really insignificent. Not sure where you acquired your 90%, but maybe that is the people you know. What happens to my collections in the future, maybe near future, is up to someone else. I would hope they continue my collection as a collection, not something to sell for a new car, boat, etc.
I also collect flashlights and most are what you would say of no value. So what? I collect them for FUN. I don't care if they are of no value and if I show one to someone, I would hope they don't blurt out, hey that is junk, it's of no value, you'll never make money on that. That is not the purpose of them. They are to me, FUN.
As I said I know your in this buisness to make money, but occationally try to remember that many, many people just want to enjoy this hobby without caring if a coin is worth zero or millions.