First Page
Posted 09/02/2007 1:34 pm
Mark,
If trying to beat into a crowd that pocket change is pocket change happens to be kicking a hornet's nest, then yes...that's exactly what I'm doing. Education is the name of the game - when people learn, I'm happy, and I usually learn something in the process.
As for the coins - learning what they are and aren't is fine. Keeping an example or two of each non-error damaged corroded piece of junk, or simple die cracks or other minor flaws is perfectly fine. In fact, I encourage it. It helps you learn what is and what isn't valuable when you end up with 100 out of 2500 coins that have the same oddity. Those obviously are too common to have any value. It's the stuff created by the mint that show up in 1 of 10,000 coins that make anyone's day when they locate one. The difference is profound and easy to recognize if the subject sinks in and the listener is willing to listen.
With regard to the Red Book...it's a beginner's basic price guide to coins, and has some basic error information in the back. With exception of those few pages, there is nothing about errors anywhere else in the book. There are, however, a number of decent books on errors. I would first recommend the ANA correspondence course book on the minting process and errors/varieties. Not sure what the title is, but if you call Cary Hardy at the ANA, he will know exactly what you're talking about. When I was there last month they had about a dozen copies left for $12 each. Arnie Margolis and Fred Weinberg wrote an encyclopedia of errors a few years ago, and that's a good book too. You can find them in a number of places online or at a show with dealers in books. Easy to find, and a wealth of information if you read them.
Now...the lures. There's a difference between finding lures that are virtually non-existant now because of use, tossing them (like you did), or a simple lack of initial availability, and keeping every coin out of your change because they look different, without any knowledge or care as to what caused them to be that way. Liken it to this...if a lure was damaged; hooks bent out of shape, or whatever. Should people want to collect them because of that? Or should people want to collect them because the first lot had red eyes, and all the other lots had green eyes? I would vote for the second scenario, because the first scenario is collecting damaged goods because they are damaged. Makes no sense.
Naturally markets are going to create themselves. People are going to buy and sell what they want at whatever level. Lures for $10 or $100, as long as they are legitimate, there is no reprocessing or fake remanufactures to make something look like wat it isn't then everything is fine. What if your friend went to a sale and found a dozen brand new Bingo lures for $200 and bought them knowing it was a fantastic deal, just to later find they were Chinese copies and weren't worth the hook that hooked him? That happened in the Beanie Baby market and all but sent it to the dump.
Anyhow...back to the matter at hand. Although slamming a penny between two others with a hammer isn't illegal, and it isn't manufacturing fake goods, it is deceptive. When a collector or dealer gets one of these and doesn't know the difference between these and a real die clash, they are naturally going to flip it as an error and sell it. Without education, they are deceiving anyone who buys it. So it sells for $10. Does that mean that hammer job cents are now worth $10?
Johnny goes through $10 in wheat cents and finds half a dozen lamination peels. Nice, and yes they are an error, but if you can find a half dozen of them in 1,000 coins, they are common and shouldn't be treated as rarities that are actually worth something. Asking a quarter as a curiosity wouldn't be out of the question, but I have seen them on dealer tables at shows for $20 or more. Some uneducated sap is going to think that's neat and buy it. He gets ripped off because he didn't bother to know or care what it was or how common it was before trusting the dealer and snagging it up.
Because one buyer or seller will sell or give astronomical unusual money for something does NOT make it WORTH that. The value of collectibles is a broad view of the entire market and an average of what people spend to get like items. A donut sells on ebay for $10. You gonna quit your job and run out to Krispy Kreme to buy up their donuts so you can start your internet business selling them for $10 each? No...you know the one sale at $10 is a fluke.
Look....this works back to the "to good to be true, so it probably is" thing. I received three emails in a week from a collector who just got started, and found two 1995 doubled dies, a 1983 doubled die, and a 1984 doubled die all in the same bag of change. I know from experience that the guy is in the middle of a heap of wishful thinking, and I know I'm going to burst another balloon when I tell him he has nothing (after I see the coins). I've been looking for 24 years in hundreds of thousands of coins and have STILL never found a SINGLE 1983 OR 1984 doubled die...and for some newcomer to dig into a single bag of no more than $30 face value and find all the big varieties is a little beyond hard to believe. It would make me nothing but happy to tell everyone what they've found is scarce, REALLY hard to find, and worth good money...but when you look through just a few coins nd think you've hit the jackpot, you're being completely unrealistic.
over 500,000 coins under my belt and I have NEVER found an indent, brockage or other 'normal size' valuable error. I have found a few dozen clips, a few blanks or planchets, a couple of unclad or unplated coins, and far more die cracks, laminations, and small die chips than I can count. With half a million coins viewed, I have seen a decent cross section of what's out there, and it gives me a very good realistic view on what's common and what's not. And when I see dealers offering at $10 a coin the same stuff I regularly toss back, I know something's wrong. It would be too good to be true for all the minor stuff I'm finding to sell for $10 a coin, because I'd be a millionaire now if that were the case. It's just as unrealistic as believing you'll win the jackpot every time you play the lottery.
So yes...we are responsible for placing value on items. This much is true. But we shouldn't be placing unrealistic value on common items, nor should we be guessing at what we have and selling it based on guesses. We should know what we have, understand exactly how it was made, know how easy or difficult they are to find, and compare what we have to other people's collections and inventory. Be educated about the value of what you buy and sell.
And no matter what...if an item sells for far more than it should with regard to the overall market, almost all the time you will find that there was something lacking...the buyers knowledge, the seller's description, or both. If an item sells for far more than market value, someone is getting burned, and that creates hostility toward something that should be fun. So it's not "Good for you!" - it's a black spot on the hobby we love, and some of us have decided to make a living at it. And believe it or not, some of us like to do it honestly.
If trying to beat into a crowd that pocket change is pocket change happens to be kicking a hornet's nest, then yes...that's exactly what I'm doing. Education is the name of the game - when people learn, I'm happy, and I usually learn something in the process.
As for the coins - learning what they are and aren't is fine. Keeping an example or two of each non-error damaged corroded piece of junk, or simple die cracks or other minor flaws is perfectly fine. In fact, I encourage it. It helps you learn what is and what isn't valuable when you end up with 100 out of 2500 coins that have the same oddity. Those obviously are too common to have any value. It's the stuff created by the mint that show up in 1 of 10,000 coins that make anyone's day when they locate one. The difference is profound and easy to recognize if the subject sinks in and the listener is willing to listen.
With regard to the Red Book...it's a beginner's basic price guide to coins, and has some basic error information in the back. With exception of those few pages, there is nothing about errors anywhere else in the book. There are, however, a number of decent books on errors. I would first recommend the ANA correspondence course book on the minting process and errors/varieties. Not sure what the title is, but if you call Cary Hardy at the ANA, he will know exactly what you're talking about. When I was there last month they had about a dozen copies left for $12 each. Arnie Margolis and Fred Weinberg wrote an encyclopedia of errors a few years ago, and that's a good book too. You can find them in a number of places online or at a show with dealers in books. Easy to find, and a wealth of information if you read them.
Now...the lures. There's a difference between finding lures that are virtually non-existant now because of use, tossing them (like you did), or a simple lack of initial availability, and keeping every coin out of your change because they look different, without any knowledge or care as to what caused them to be that way. Liken it to this...if a lure was damaged; hooks bent out of shape, or whatever. Should people want to collect them because of that? Or should people want to collect them because the first lot had red eyes, and all the other lots had green eyes? I would vote for the second scenario, because the first scenario is collecting damaged goods because they are damaged. Makes no sense.
Naturally markets are going to create themselves. People are going to buy and sell what they want at whatever level. Lures for $10 or $100, as long as they are legitimate, there is no reprocessing or fake remanufactures to make something look like wat it isn't then everything is fine. What if your friend went to a sale and found a dozen brand new Bingo lures for $200 and bought them knowing it was a fantastic deal, just to later find they were Chinese copies and weren't worth the hook that hooked him? That happened in the Beanie Baby market and all but sent it to the dump.
Anyhow...back to the matter at hand. Although slamming a penny between two others with a hammer isn't illegal, and it isn't manufacturing fake goods, it is deceptive. When a collector or dealer gets one of these and doesn't know the difference between these and a real die clash, they are naturally going to flip it as an error and sell it. Without education, they are deceiving anyone who buys it. So it sells for $10. Does that mean that hammer job cents are now worth $10?
Johnny goes through $10 in wheat cents and finds half a dozen lamination peels. Nice, and yes they are an error, but if you can find a half dozen of them in 1,000 coins, they are common and shouldn't be treated as rarities that are actually worth something. Asking a quarter as a curiosity wouldn't be out of the question, but I have seen them on dealer tables at shows for $20 or more. Some uneducated sap is going to think that's neat and buy it. He gets ripped off because he didn't bother to know or care what it was or how common it was before trusting the dealer and snagging it up.
Because one buyer or seller will sell or give astronomical unusual money for something does NOT make it WORTH that. The value of collectibles is a broad view of the entire market and an average of what people spend to get like items. A donut sells on ebay for $10. You gonna quit your job and run out to Krispy Kreme to buy up their donuts so you can start your internet business selling them for $10 each? No...you know the one sale at $10 is a fluke.
Look....this works back to the "to good to be true, so it probably is" thing. I received three emails in a week from a collector who just got started, and found two 1995 doubled dies, a 1983 doubled die, and a 1984 doubled die all in the same bag of change. I know from experience that the guy is in the middle of a heap of wishful thinking, and I know I'm going to burst another balloon when I tell him he has nothing (after I see the coins). I've been looking for 24 years in hundreds of thousands of coins and have STILL never found a SINGLE 1983 OR 1984 doubled die...and for some newcomer to dig into a single bag of no more than $30 face value and find all the big varieties is a little beyond hard to believe. It would make me nothing but happy to tell everyone what they've found is scarce, REALLY hard to find, and worth good money...but when you look through just a few coins nd think you've hit the jackpot, you're being completely unrealistic.
over 500,000 coins under my belt and I have NEVER found an indent, brockage or other 'normal size' valuable error. I have found a few dozen clips, a few blanks or planchets, a couple of unclad or unplated coins, and far more die cracks, laminations, and small die chips than I can count. With half a million coins viewed, I have seen a decent cross section of what's out there, and it gives me a very good realistic view on what's common and what's not. And when I see dealers offering at $10 a coin the same stuff I regularly toss back, I know something's wrong. It would be too good to be true for all the minor stuff I'm finding to sell for $10 a coin, because I'd be a millionaire now if that were the case. It's just as unrealistic as believing you'll win the jackpot every time you play the lottery.
So yes...we are responsible for placing value on items. This much is true. But we shouldn't be placing unrealistic value on common items, nor should we be guessing at what we have and selling it based on guesses. We should know what we have, understand exactly how it was made, know how easy or difficult they are to find, and compare what we have to other people's collections and inventory. Be educated about the value of what you buy and sell.
And no matter what...if an item sells for far more than it should with regard to the overall market, almost all the time you will find that there was something lacking...the buyers knowledge, the seller's description, or both. If an item sells for far more than market value, someone is getting burned, and that creates hostility toward something that should be fun. So it's not "Good for you!" - it's a black spot on the hobby we love, and some of us have decided to make a living at it. And believe it or not, some of us like to do it honestly.
