Trying To Gather Information Regarding This 1811 8 Reales

I see the edge design overlap on the last edge photo. Can you provide an edge photo 180 degrees from that photo? One authentication diagnostic is the presence of a second edge overlap of the same length on the opposite side.

Thanks everyone so far,

Requested pics of edge from one side and then 180 degrees on other side.

Hello,
Again thanks to everyone.

As far as the xrf, I have a unit that will run basic xrf but only a few microns deep and not sensitive enough to register very slight gold content. It would need to be approximately 1/2 of a percent or more to show with its current set up.

Peace13, your xrf data is acceptable on the whole. Au though is a bit lower than 0.2%, I still think the 8R coin was made of old silver. The presence of Pb is another good indication. Did you use a modern silver coin as a negative control for your examination? Can you also tell how much do you cost to buy this instrument? Henry

Yes a modern silver US coin showed only silver and copper as its metals.

This Olympus XRF was about $20,000 new, I think one could be had for about $15,000 now.

peaece13 you have a wonderful resource for testing alloy composition. As Henry mentioned, 0.2% AU has been the figure that Bob Gurney and John Lorenzo have determined is typical for regal Mexico 8 reales. I hope you will continue to collect 8 reales and let us know how they test out with your XRF equipment.

peaece13 Hello and welcome.

The analysis you have done is a great beginning. From the photos the coin appears to be a Class 2 Counterfeit made for the China trade.

I have several comments.

First - the coin is most likely early (pre-1870) because of the gold content. It was not made with modern silver (post 1880).
Second - there does not appear to be an appropriate overlap on the edge design where there should be one. If there are 2 laps they are not the same length. I also see some variation in circle shape and spacing that could point to the same conclusion. I noted a few other issues typical of Class 2 like irregular taper of the flan and random raised dots.
Third - the entire design looks more like those seen on a Class 2 circulating silver counterfeit than a genuine coin. (Don't worry about that since I do not believe the market will reflect a difference for some years to come especially for the Class 2 coins that contain gold).

The 1811 was the last of the Portrait busts that was copied for use in making Class 2 silver counterfeits.

wonghinghi You are correct that the standard bust of the king was unpopular in China. But in 1811 it was not the legend FERDIN VII that mattered. The last acceptable bust used on a Mexican 8 Reale was the transitional bust of Ferdinand VII. I agree there are NO Class 2 coins using the standard Ferdinand VII bust but there are many in the book using the transitional design. The King's face is fatter (more like a thin Buddha than the standard gaunt portrait of Ferdinand VII) and a key point is that the ribbons are not thin on the transitional bust.

There are numerous period references to the rich or fat man being acceptable as opposed to the thin ribbons in the hair of Ferdinand.

Regarding wear - I would expect normal wear. If this coin was minted in 1830 it could have circulated off and on for 100 years before the bust dollar was demonetized in 1935. Wear should never be used as a determinant for authenticity in the case of a Class 2 coin. Like the Class 1 coins they did circulate freely.

I also just noticed another key feature pointing to a class 2 coin - the double edge arc between the F in FERDIN and the first 1 in the date. There is a gap between the side of the edge detail and the dentil arc of the face die. WHY? It is simply not a feature that should be present on a genuine coin.