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Possible VAM? 1883-P

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New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  8:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add madzen23 to your friends list
Thank you for the prompt replies!! I'm doing my best to get a better image for you. The scanner seems to do a decent job. Hopefully these will be better. I'm including the Obverse as well. I am also trying VAM World.


Possible-VAM?-1883-P

Possible-VAM?-1883-P
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add madzen23 to your friends list
I am getting out my DSLR. I'm sure that will produce some sharper images for you! Thanks again for the patience and assistance.
Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  8:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list
It sure looks like a die gouge from your scanned image, but better images from your DSLR will certainly help identify the die pair.
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United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
Welcome to Coin Community, madzen23. An interesting coin for your first thread here.

There are things about the coin which make me worry slightly about its' authenticity. That said, all of those things are within the margin for photographic error (especially with the coin still behind the mylar of the 2x2) of these images so we won't worry about that yet.

The mark has every appearance of a die gouge, and if we stipulate that the mark is raised it becomes the default theory. It wouldn't be the first very similar mark known on Morgans. However, to the best of my knowledge it's not known on any 1883-P's (understanding I haven't looked at every single one of the 40+ known VAMs for the date). The fact that one isn't recorded is no guarantee of anything, of course. This coin could be an unknown die state of a known VAM.

So we will await the dSLR play. I'm particularly interested in what looks like weakness of strike in the wings and front periphery of the hair.
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  9:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add madzen23 to your friends list
Hoping these are a little bit better. May need a Macro Lens, unless someone has a better way


Possible-VAM?-1883-P

Possible-VAM?-1883-P

Possible-VAM?-1883-P
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  9:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add madzen23 to your friends list
Please let me know if I can provide anything to make it easier to judge. It certainly appears to be raised and thus a die gouge, under magnification. But I defer to the experts on this one. Definitely and interesting specimen.

Thank you again for all the help!
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  10:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add madzen23 to your friends list


Possible-VAM?-1883-P
Valued Member
United States
467 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2015  04:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oober to your friends list
The surfaces of the reverse makes it look cast. Were there extremely rusted dies in 1883?
Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2015  08:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list
Looks cast, albeit an above average one, with all that pitting and the black remnants of the mould around the devices but let's wait for SD to confirm
Valued Member
United States
467 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2015  2:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oober to your friends list
I don't understand the neck feathers to chest feathers transition either. Fairly sharp at neck, but nothing at chest.
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2015  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add madzen23 to your friends list
If there are angles that will make the analysis easier, please let me know. I'm working on getting a better lens, for some better quality close up images. The early images in the post look drastically different, as they were taken in a flatbed scanner (fairly cheap HP).


Possible-VAM?-1883-P
Edited by madzen23
06/26/2015 3:00 pm
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2015  11:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add madzen23 to your friends list


Possible-VAM?-1883-P
Pillar of the Community
United States
6388 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2015  11:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list
Given the suspicion this coin might be spurious I'd say the next step should be to check the weight and check with a magnet. Weight should be very close to 26.7 grams and the coin obviously will not be attracted by a magnet if genuine.

Your photos of the date show the second 8 to be distinctly smaller than the first 8. I don't think I've ever seen that on a genuine 1883 Morgan.
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2015  7:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add madzen23 to your friends list
The coin has passed the all of the standard testing. (Magnet, Weight comes up exactly 26.7, and it also passed the "Ring" test). You are the first to comment on the 8's being different sizes. I'd have to agree with you on that for sure. I do plan on sending the coin in for further analysis, so I will keep everyone posted on the results! I greatly appreciate the input. Even if it turns out to be a fake, I've learned a lot through this process. It still baffles me that there would be fakes of such a common date with such a high mintage.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2015  01:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list
I think its a slant date like VAM 13, from the pictures not all of the dates look like they are all from the same coin, but photography an be that way sometimes....the marks near next to the I look like an old knife wound from a bad night in the bar gone bad, and has been pushed back over over time to look like a "raised area".. Just my 2 cents
G
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