1980 LMC Rim To Rim Crack?

One of the reasons I call it a rim-to-rim die crack is because the wear involved at the rim prevents one from being 100% sure it actually cracked all the way through the rim. It may have and be hidden by wear but there is no positive evidence of it. There also does not seem to be any displacement of design suggesting that the piece of die in question is still connected to the body of the die. Additionally, very few obverse dies (what was the hammer die 99.9% of the time in those days), actually fell away to cause an actual Cud. As such, we have to assume that if gravity did not cause most dies like this to develop into known Cuds, that they probably weren't fully separated from the die and most probably never developed into full blow Cuds. To be a Retained Cud, the piece of die within the rim-to-rim die crack must be fully separated from the body of the die.

Pete, the cent dies of the time had a longer shaft for the reverse die so that it could eject the coin. That's probably still true.

Ken - your explanation seems to make sense. I guess I envision that an interior die break (retained Cud?) would perhaps have enough irregularities in the break to keep it from falling out with gravity where as one break rim-to-rim wouldn't.

My thoughts exactly. I've seen a few dies where you could see the interior piece was retained and appeared as if you could move it with your finger (but it wouldn't move). But under tons of force, you would see that it was by the varied witness marks left on the subject items it was producing.

This was a good, informative thread!! I like these kinds of threads!

OK, the new images are clearer. There is plainly break displacement and metal filling that displacement in the fields. I can see more of that in the head now as well. The thing that got to me is, if there's detail displaced something has to fill the space that detail moved away from and I couldn't see any fill in the head area.

Although - as has been mentioned - circulation has obscured proof that the break reaches the rim, it's reasonable to assume it does so if the break can be observed to be widening as it approaches the rim at both ends. It's clearly so at the right end on this coin, less-so on the left, but judging from the displacement I kinda doubt that section of the die was connected to the rest by the time this coin was struck.

First of all I want everyone to know I truly appreciate your time and thoughts on this coin. To answer a few questions, Slamnbass, I'm not sure which is horizontal and vertical displacement, I assume vertical is when the coin is laying flat and part of it is higher, and horizontal is how far apart the break is. In either case, I will check the U as well as the entire coin both ways. If I see something, I will post it. As far as BJ goes, I filled out the contact page on his site, but never heard back from him.
Blue, I will check the gray areas, anything noted will be posted.
Drew, you nailed it!
Barring further developments, I will label this one (in pencil) a Pre-Cud Die Break. Very informative indeed. Thanks all very much.

I was referring to BlueSolo's blowups, which were a great help for my visualization. Your die is a pretty clear illustration of the process and leaves little to the imagination. It leaves me wondering what and where metal compresses in order to leave that gap; the only way a gap appears is if the same amount of metal now fills a smaller space. Perhaps vertical displacement provides that extra space.