Grading--Us V. UK

I think you can say CGS is reputable. And being UK based, they are likely to identify varieties that US TPGS might not.

But the problems identified on the UK forum are that firstly, CGS have done themselves no favours working to a scale that is completely different and unfamiliar to US collectors but also novel to UK ones.

While CGS' associate London Coins might use CGS grades in their auctions, I haven't noticed the system catching on generally for say, unslabbed coins. Dealers almost universally use the F to EF to UNC scale you mentioned, unless the coin is already third party graded.

Secondly there is much less acceptance of third party grading generally this side of the pond. While there are enthusiasts who slab/grade all of their coins it is much less common than in the US. I'd say 80-90% of coin sales are still raw here.

Finally there are (possibly quite a few!) collectors who feel quite strongly that paying someone else to grade only discourages people from learning to assess coins for themselves and that the disadvantages of slabbing (difficulty in checking edges for damage, hard to photograph in a slab, can't weigh the coin) outweigh the protection it provides.

My feeling is that learning to grade for oneself is still the recommended route in the UK, certainly at the moment and possibly for some years to come.




I think this sounds a little harsh perhaps? My view is that dealers grade (as do we all) through experience and if you rarely see particular coins you'll consider them rare. And if you seldom see ones above gVF you will tend to up the price of anything noticeably better...

I also get a feeling that some US dealers (perhaps in common with a few ebay sellers!) appear to associate age and value. Oddly an exception is ancients like Roman coins where US and UK prices are perhaps more comparable.

The thing is that the market and range of prices in the US is quite different (and the range of prices usually larger) than the UK. In a world where $30,000 is nowhere near the top end, maybe £500 for a coin that here would achieve £200 seems reasonable? Another reason to buy British coins from Britain maybe?
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Having lived in both the US and UK (currently in the UK), I have some insight into this, particularly as I sometimes buy US coins in the UK to resell in the US, and vice versa.

UK dealers will invariably use the UK grading standards when dealing with UK coins, although just like in the US some dealers will tend to overgrade. For world coins (including US coins) some will use UK standards, but others with a big auction presence or US customers will grade the US coins using US standards.

US dealers will tend to use US grading for all coins, including UK coins. If they price using Krause this isn't so bad, but if they use Spinks (one of the main coin retail value books in the UK) it leads to vastly inflated prices. When buying UK coins in the US, I simply determine what I will pay based on the grade I see in UK terms, not what the dealer has listed on the holder, and buy accordingly.

For the three coins, I suspect the following:

1879 - UK F/VF, US VF/EF
1951 - UK EF, US MS60 to MS62, possibly cleaned
1970 - Looks cleaned or damaged

Personally, I like the 1879 the best - while not particularly valuable, it's still in a collectable grade and I have a weakness for Queen Victoria coins.

For cataloguing one's own collection, well that can be difficult. I tend to grade them based on the standards used in the country of origin. Perhaps you could enter the letters UK before the grades for the UK coins? Some countries are closer to US grading - France, which I collect more than either the US or UK, tends to be just a slight bit tougher than US - so a UK VF would likely grade a French aEF and a US EF. Egypt and India, two other areas I collect, tend to pretty much match US grades (except when Indian coins are sold in the UK, when the dealers tend to use UK grading - so I have purchased rupees described as VF that still had traces of mint lustre).

I think the book that Tom suggests is a good place to start - it's pretty highly recommended due to the good images. You can also look at coins offered by reputable UK dealers or auction houses, although the images often aren't good enough to be useful.

-Bjorn

Would say the first one is a decent Fine, second is not cleaned from my screen view but is a bit scuffed still UNC and the third is a junk box candidate. PWA is right. If you collected this series , you would look for far better pieces than shown.
One of the reasons I go on UK buying trips is the quality encountered along with a far better price than found in North America.

As I prefaced before, I was throwing out grades as graded using a U.S. grading system- I certainly am well aware of the difference between the UK and the American grading system...

Something I think is applicable to the OP is that there is absolutely a strong difference between the grading of MANY countries, and it is imperative to learn the differences and how to grade for yourself... For instance, if you are an American collector who is collecting Canadian, you would be foolish to not learn how both ICCS (Canadian Grading Company) and how the American TPGs grade...

Many thanks for the grading perspectives. I posted the coins expressly to get feedback on grading standards, especially UK standards so I can better understand how collectors/dealers in the UK feel about grading. So far, I'm hearing that there is no "details" correlation in UK grading--such coins are only good for the bin--and face (or other prominent) marks on a coin don't detract from grade, they simply make a coin uncollectable (again, for the bin). From other threads, I'm also reading that rim dings similarly relegate a UK coin to the bin.

Greetings.

Just received a number of UK coins and I realize that the grading system in the UK differs from the US. Is there a comparable "Photograde" site or system to guide me? I appreciate the verbal explanation here, but photos would help.

Stay well,
Diy89Nurm7

1879 - Bare fine
1951 - UNC but possibly cleaned
1970 - Impaired proof

Some of the comments here are harsh, calling people's coins crap and telling them to throw coins out.

That attitude deters new collectors.

Let us teach by example not arrogance and derision. Coins mean different things to different people. As long as the 1970 penny was cheap, who cares if its impaired - someone will love it.

Just to add, the 1951 penny, although cleaned and with some damage to the obverse, is far from worthless. Both the 1950 and 1951 pennies were very low mintages and even in worn condition will make reasonable money. I would expect that one would make £25 or more, depending how forgiving any buyer might be on the obverse damage.
Also, with the 1879 penny, which I would grade in the UK at Fine or maybe Good Fine, there are numerous varieties for that year, which can make a big difference to the value.