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 Replies: 47 / Views: 5,630 |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1014 Posts |
Hehe, people, don't argue..... Life is too short to be full of hate and arguments....  Am I'm only 16, and most of the guys here are older than me.... Don't stress your heart out thinking of responses... As for my opinion, the seller is wrong, and should be reported.... However, if the slabs are crappy, (I wouldn't know cause I'm from Australia) Then the company should also take it upon themselves to have a more quality slab that cannot be that easily broken... Just my humble opinion, please don't flame me or anything... |
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Rest in Peace
Australia
661 Posts |
Sage words from a youthful member.
I think a lot of us shuld take a leaf from his book.
IMHO:
If the slabs can be opened undamaged then NGC must answer for it. I do not believe it impossible to make an unopenable
slab.
The sins of the camp followers are another matter. There are appropriate controls for them.
regards,
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1014 Posts |
Thx muckeye.... And congrats on your upcoming pillardom... |
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Rest in Peace
Australia
661 Posts |
Good God, I hadn't even noticed it :) Thanks for the thought. regards, (I'll have to be careful what I say from now on  ) Edited by muckeye
02/04/2008 05:31 am
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Moderator
 Australia
16869 Posts |
quote:
HABIB said:
...do you think that people who buy slabbed coins get what they deserve?
I think that anyone who believes that they don't have to know anything about the coins or the sellers, anyone who believes that they can safely ignore the usual red flags and warning signs of a fishy deal, and anyone who chooses to continue to buy in ignorance, so long as the coins they buy are slabbed, is like a runaway train. A disaster is inevitable, it's just a matter of where and when. As for this seller, I'm not entirely convinced they had a nefarious intent in mind when they listed the empty slabs. Look at the grades on the slabs... they're all MS-69 or PF-69. It seems clear to me (as a rank outsider observer) that this guy's been playing the crackout game. He's bought a whole truckload of coins from the Mint (hence all the empty Mint packaging) and sent them in to NGC, hoping for perfect scores. He gets back some that aren't. So he cracks 'em out and sends 'em in again (or maybe sends them "across the street" in the belief that they might be more lenient over there). Now he's left with a pile of useless plastic, so he tries to recoup some of his losses by selling the empties on ebay. It sure wouldn't have occurred to me to buy these empties and use them to try to re-slab a raw coin... until I read this thread.  So... if selling them is a no-no, what is someone who "plays the game", or even someone who simply prefers their coins raw, supposed to do with their crackout debris? Throw them away? (What if someone goes though their trash?) Treat them like toxic waste and incinerate them? Treat them like credit cards and chop 'em up into itty bitty pieces? Or are they supposed to send the empties back to NGC for recycling? I'm only asking because one day I may end up having to buy a slabbed coin, and the very next thing I would buy afterwards is one of those "Dremel" thingies I've heard are excellent for cracking slabs open. I'd have just thrown the empty away... or given it to a fellow collector or local coin dealer if they seemed interested in it... or maybe even sold it as a curiosity. I haven't seen anyone in this thread worried about the guy selling the empty Mint packaging. But to me, that stuff's potentially just as dangerous, if it got into the hands of, say, the Chinese fakemasters. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
I think a bit of perspective is in order. The grading companies evolved from a real need, a true clamor, in the collecting community for a set of standards. I also think the general opinion on this board is that they have evolved past the point of absolute utility, and some would argue that their work shades toward hucksterism in the guise of concern for the collector, entirely for the sake of profit.
We should all follow--and encourage others to follow--the basic tenet of coin buying, i.e. 'buy the coin, not the slab.' Where I guess I differ is that I always completely shred and thoroughly discard or recycle any crack-out materials. I've only bought coins in slabs to crack for my 7070 and when they were nice coins selling at or below book value.
Grading companies may need to do a better job securing their intellectual property. The slabs, inserts and the specific coins they designated in grade were packaged as a unit. The case of mint products is not quite the same as the mint could have placed any one of the coin run that passed their QC into the box. A slab is for one coin and one coin only. To sell any part of the slab without the coin it designated may simply be a violation of the seller's user agreement with NGC--if they were the original submitter--or it may be a broader violation of NGC's legal rights. I don't know.
The coin slabbers need to find a way allow us to identify if the coin in the slab is the one they graded, and they ought to enumerate the penalty (if there is one) for selling any part of their materials that are not the same as they were when they left the slab house somewhere on the slab.
Eventually, I think the TPGs should transform into something more like they were intended to be-a safety net--or go away and die a slow painful, horrible death, but I think that is not related to the question of whether it's OK for this seller to be selling these inserts.
Edited by halfabustisbetter
02/04/2008 07:52 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
549 Posts |
Sap, I understand what you're saying, but I think the intent of this listing is clear.
Personally, I would take issue to somebody who was selling one (or a few) mint boxes and COAs from a proof set (just an example). There are people out there who own legitimate proof sets and the packaging is messed up, so they want new packaging.
This is a bit different. The seller most likely broke out the coins to fill in sets, just as you mentioned; however, the way he's marketing them is not meant to attract individuals who are looking for empty slabs to store their personal collections. It's going to attract scammers who will buy rolls of UNC coins and stick them in MS69 slabs for resale. This seller knows EXACTLY what he's doing. If his intention was to sell to somebody who just wanted some slabs and boxes to store his personal collection, he wouldn't be advertising the grades on the stickers, nor would he be advertising the fact that COAs are included.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts |
Left this one and had to come back. I saw the same thing mycrob did initially and had the same thoughts. As soon as I read a little further I understood what I had missed. I have complete respect for scumbuster's efforts with ebay, however, we should have each others backs more. Judge me by where I am going, not by the path I choose to get there. And, if that path is too dangerous, put out a hand and help me. Jim |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
Sent this message to the seller this morning: quote:
Dear mohawkcoin,
Since I haven't heard from you regarding my other question, I decided it would be best to ask the people at NGC directly. I forwarded them a link to your listing (I hope you don't mind). I'll let you know what their answer is as soon as I hear back from them. Thanks!
Then sent this message to NGC: quote:
Message: The ebay seller 'mohawkcoin' has a listing on ebay
(190194593479) for 100 of your graded coin slab inserts, with no coins
and no encapsulating plastic. Is this something you encourage your
member-dealers to do? What kind of guarantee do I have that I will be
receiving the coin that was originally graded if you allow your
member-dealers to resell these inserts? Thanks
Received this response from NGC: quote:
Dear Mr.,
We do not encourage this what so ever and we are looking into this
matter.
Thank you,
Lisa
Seems the listing is no longer there. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
You may resheathe your sword, HABIB. It's drawn blood.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2602 Posts |
I sent them a message this morning asking them to end their listing- at that time the listing was active. They did not respond to my message, but the listing is gone. I don't know if they removed it voluntarily, or ebay removed it. However, it was under 12 h to go, so I don't know if the the seller can end it with under 12 h to go. Does anyone know? If that's the case, then ebay canceled it. |
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Forum Dad
United States
24187 Posts |
When they completely disappear like that, ebay did it. A seller can only end the listing, not make it go away. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
549 Posts |
I also emailed him this morning. I guess his mailbox was flooded! If he cancelled the listing himself, it would show up just as it did before, but it would say that the auction was ended early by the seller. When you get just that little box saying it was removed, it's always an ebay removal. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
quote:
You may resheathe your sword, HABIB. It's drawn blood.
Trust me when I say there was little satisfaction in the kill. When the choice is between the lesser of two evils, whether to ally oneself in battle, to elect one's President, or to stop a criminal stealing from other criminals, there is never complete satisfaction. In these cases, innocence and chivalry are silent ciphers, sitting solemnly by, mourning their own inconsequentiality. If one loses the faith and brotherhood of comrades-in-arms during the fray, then the unease and disquiet double. Edited by halfabustisbetter
02/05/2008 08:48 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1014 Posts |
I need a dictionary...  |
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Replies: 47 / Views: 5,630 |
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Posted 02/04/2008 04:02 am
